Denon DJ Prime 4 standalone system controller DJWORX (18)

The Denon DJ Prime 4 is coming — the bigger picture

In a pre and post NAMM world, you will have been bombarded with media of every conceivable kind relating to Denon DJ’s new Prime 4 controller. Wait… is controller the right word? I’ll get to that in a bit. Be it regurgitating the plush PR in a video, Instagramming from NAMM, or creating lush tutorials, you cannot escape the fact that the Prime 4 owned NAMM, both before the show and after. 

But we didn’t go to NAMM — NAMM came to us, and the most excellent Paul Dakeyne from Denon DJ brought his good self for lunch, and for Dan and myself to paw at the Prime 4 for a bit. And we were impressed on both counts. 

But that was many weeks ago, and I’m quite certain that every question that could be asked has been answered in one media outlet or another. I will however confirm the answer to the most often posed question — yes there will be horizontal waveforms in a future update. We offered a few suggestions about screen space while we had it with us, but I’m sure this single answer will have a few more people confirming their desire to throw money at the screen.

But instead of pushing out more of the same content, I want to talk about the wider implications of the Prime 4, and what it means to the DJ industry. And to you as a consumer of this never-ending conveyor belt of fresh shiny. 

IT’S NOTHING NEW

The DJ industry finds itself in a rather strange place. We may be looking at this incessant stream on new units, but bar the odd exception (haptic jogs for example), what’s being pushed as new is in fact quite old. It’s just a bit bigger and a bit better — consider most units a greatest hits compilation.

The workflow of analysing tracks and writing them to a USB is well established. And putting a hard drive inside a unit is classic Denon DN-S5000 stuff too. This is basically decade old tech, repackaged, and infused with the processing power that is now available. A huge touch screen is a welcome addition though.

Now, before Denon DJ’s PR department starts shouting at me about the Prime 4 being the first standalone 4 channel controller, I will clarify my statement by saying the first that has been announced. Many years ago now, I saw a four channel standalone unit, and it worked. And that’s all I can say. 

I just find myself endlessly amazed at how boundary pushing the industry has been in the past, but the market just hasn’t been ready for the slabs of next level shiny that have been put in front of it. I’m expecting a hybrid turntable/media player to come out again, and for the market to lose its mind where previously it did not. But I digress.

Denon DJ MCX8000 Serato DJ Engine Standalone controller review (17)
Close, but no standalone cigar — the Denon DJ MCX8000.

MCX8000 — A FALSE START

Having seen the future some time ago in the relatively distant past, I’ve been waiting for that moment when the now would catch up. And when the MCX8000 controller imposed itself on the scene like the alien mothership in Independence Day 2, I hoped that the wait was over. “Wait… it’s only standalone two channels?” moaned the collective voice at DJWORX Towers, and subsequently the DJ scene too. And while it was a beast of a controller, it felt incomplete. 

No worries — the Serato logo adorned the chassis. It was still a four channel controller, if still tethered to a computer.

Denon DJ Prime 4 standalone system controller DJWORX (6)

PRIME 4 — A REAL START

As you might expect, the rumour mill coming up to NAMM was spinning at full speed. With knowledge and experience, it has become easier to sift through the mill’s output and work out what is true and what has started as wishful thinking and spun out of control into conspiracy theory level bullshit.

And then the teasing started, and of course as is my way, I busted out the CSI level image analysis (well tweaked curves), and the features of the new Denon DJ device revealed themselves. Not all of them you understand — my MO is well known, so certain features were disguised ahead of time to maintain the air of mystery. It didn’t stop me pulling out the features that others missed though. 

And eventually, the full majesty of the Prime 4 was apparent, and the first full four channel standalone… something was released. 

I ponder the question of exactly what the Prime 4 is. As a standalone unit, it’s not really a controller. But nor is it a media player in the conventional sense either. This is evidenced on the Prime 4 product page, a place bereft of mentions of controller, media player, MIDI, or HID. Denon DJ repeatedly states that the Prime 4 as a system. And as a complete all-in-one in need of nothing else, I can see why.

Denon DJ Prime 4 standalone system controller DJWORX (3)

STANDING ALONE

One of the very first things that became apparent was the lack of Serato branding. For a device of this kind to have none of the usual logos on was quite novel. But for me it signalled the start of something else, in effect Denon DJ cutting the cord and going it alone. It’s just more evidence of my long-held theory of Denon DJ turning their Engine Prime desktop software into a complete DJ package rather than just a library manager.

It’s not that the Prime 4 won’t work with Serato DJ Pro — it will in time according to the original PR. I’m just not convinced that it needs to work with a laptop at all. I know that a great many of you are balls-deep into the Serato ecosystem, but since using the SC5000 Primes, I’ve felt no need to add a computer to the workflow, other than to organise my library. I don’t miss it, and if anything welcome not having to use it at all. Less moving parts and all that — one less thing to worry about failing in the heat of the moment. This would explain the enduring popularity of CDJs in the face of seemingly superior options. 

Denon DJ Prime 4 standalone system controller DJWORX (5)

THE FUTURE IS HERE – WELL ALMOST

As the industry continues to tie itself to trade show schedules that don’t necessarily align with real life and real events, we’ve all seen the Prime 4 but are still waiting for it to hit the shops. But from our brief play in the Worxlab, we’re mightily impressed with what we saw, and via the huge screen, what we touched too. 

There is a genuine feeling of the future having arrived, as if it’s the first day of the rest of our DJ lives. OK, that’s infused with a huge dollop of inMusic hyperbole, but a four channel device that looks like a controller that isn’t connected to a computer feels like freedom from tethered tyranny. That means no more looking across or up at the laptop and hoping it doesn’t crash, plus your focus remains in front of you rather than… well over there somewhere. 

What I like about the Prime 4 is the lack of compromise. It would have been easy to simply one-up Pioneer DJ’s XDJ range by just adding a couple of extra channels. But they’ve taken it a few steps further to leap ahead of their arch rivals. Right now, Pioneer DJ does seem to be taking its sweet time to respond to the Prime hardware, if indeed it feels that it needs to.

The difference here is that while Pioneer DJ dominates in the booth, the wider market is open season. And Denon DJ already has a good grip of the mobile market which offers them a better way to build the market share is needs to have any chance of edging Pioneer DJ out of the booth. Indeed there was a certain “yada yada yada where the two channel version?” in the social media comments. The appetite is there for maybe less instead of a constant stream of more.

SUMMING UP THE PRIME 4

Given the reception from NAMM, the Prime 4 is off to a good start. First impressions count, and experience shows that they usually last. Thankfully the things that have been picked up on largely focus around screen usage, and noises have already been made about making fixes before it’s even arriving on retailer’s shelves.

More than anything though, for me it signals the start of a move away from laptops. Not entirely you understand, but there will now be a series of standalone alternatives now that Denon DJ has added to the start made by Pioneer DJ’s XDJ units, and before that with Stanton’s SCS.4DJ. What will be interesting is how the scene perceives such units — if you were to glue together standalone Pioneer DJ units, you’d have much the same thing for a fraction of the price for most people. But people do love to defend their choices.

The Denon DJ Prime 4 will be in shops mid April.

GALLERY

The Old Owner
  1. yes it is good to see Denon slowing claw back their position on top of the DJ gear mountain that has for so many years been dominated by Pioneer and their CDJ….and to acknowlegde that Stanton’s SCS-4DJ broke out of the mould of laptop powered DJ systems is fare but have you really looked at history and figured out who the first stand alone DJ player makers were… Back in 2002 – 2004 a group of designers..from Russia…teamed up with Gemini who financed them and came out with a product line called Cortex where the units were computer based music players using USB sticks to hold the music and that could be used with plug in keyboards to access the tracks….they produced several models…from rack mounted players that looked like denon cd controllers…with basic screens the HDC1000 then the HDC3000 with had more tricks to the compact players with inbuilt mixers..my personal compact favorite the DJMix300 and DJmix600 that were 19 inches wide…and only needed a keyboard and USB thumbdrive to work..with xlr outputs…such a great little player then they made the big club scene looks like a Pioneer CDJ but is not…HDTT-5000, these has al the tricks they could think of..I still play with these even today.. Cortex was evntually bought out in 2006-2007 by the big boys in the industry and their technology became the next new thing from that big big company. Cortex still lives on in the modern XDJ’s and to a lesser extent the Stantons and now the Denons…long live CORTEX..

  2. Nothing new per se, but If it does get Serato DJ support I think it would be the first standalone unit to run serato without a laptop, no?

      1. Well then, that’s A SH*T LOAD of a bummer. I thought it would run the same as the prime software, where you don’t need a computer. I don’t think I was the only one that thought that. There are serato heads that believe this too. This changes a lot. Thanks for the info Mark!

    1. Having to not use the computer to begin with I guess. OS updates/upgrades, compatibility issues, etc. One less thing to worry about.

      1. Controllers have Frequent firmware updates. Compatibility issues? Haven’t had one of those in years. You still have to manage your music on a laptop. And managing music is much easier on a laptop than those AIO controllers. The AIO controller’s software will always be lacking behind full blown Serato or Tracktor on a laptop. Not to mention you have a smaller screen on the controller, no mouse support or keyboard (screen keyboards take up screen real-estate), And I guarantee you that navigating and searching for music is much easier on a laptop.

        1. All good points, especially about a computer being necessary for library management anyway.

          Here’s my experience — the Surface Book I have here gets considerably more OS updates that the Primes do. And as NI has recently experienced, those updates can render your controllers invisible, a fault of the OS and mot the controller. My Macs however are less frequently updated, but have suffered considerably with audio issues after being updated.

          One thing to remember about laptops is that the specification necessary to run DJ software rises with each release. It’s not just a matter of downloading the hottest version — it may mean buying an entire laptop too. And if that laptop is their general purpose workhorse, it might not offer the mission critical glitch free experience either.

          The small screen on the Prime 4 doesn’t bother me at all (the SC5000s are even smaller and work well). I actually prefer it because it’s very focussed on delivering the essentials right under my nose. Nor do I care about mouse support because everything is gesture based like my phone, and the screen keyboard is only there while I type. I do however feel that the current Prime 4 interface is a bit “big print” and could definitely do with some refinement and scaling down.

          For the most part, it’s just a matter of familiarising yourself with the touch screen interface. It’s not for everyone, and many will prefer to continue with the benefits of a big screen and audio muscle that a laptop offers. But personally speaking, I’m more than happy… no positively ecstatic about being able to leave my laptop out of my audio chain. But DJs are free to use what they like — nobody is right or wrong in this scenario. It’s simply a matter of personal choice.

        2. I hear you, and you’re right. I was merely giving the reasons why folks want to ditch them. Even not having to carry a laptop. That extra thing is a major reason. Every time there’s a new OS update people tend to have compatibility issues. There’s a huge difference between using a laptop to prep music and using it to run dvs software. I’ve used rekordbox in the past to just prep songs for USB sticks. Also, some don’t mind having a “small” screen to just select songs. People do just fine using CDJ-2000 Nexus’ at the moment, and this appears to be bigger.

    2. Less bag to carry (and this is a biggie if you’re a mobile DJ) and one less possible source of error for your DJ’ing needs. If the library management on the Prime 4 can emulate what Serato DJ Pro can do that would be a big win. However, I do see one downfall in that, well at least for me, I purchase music on a regular basis and my library evolves and grows on a weekly basis. This would be an inconvenient thing to do on an internal HD of the prime.

  3. Can I record the mic inputs and play it back a few seconds later one of the decks.
    Would be helpful if I gig with 2 beat-boxer, so I can juggling that inmadiately/later.
    If it can be done, would be a nice feature to have the mics recorded separately as well and as mixed also. So one can get samples from any of the 3 recorded files on the go and later too.

  4. I have the xdj rx2 – never used it with my laptop yet. I’m impressed by the prime 4 but unless I invest in external drum machines that will one day sync to a standalone unit’s bpm – then I’m ok with a 2 channel unit that has aux 3rd channel in. Maybe I can afford djm750 and xdj1000’s some day but its a hobby not a career. I don’t miss Traktor at all. Sorry NI.

  5. I was one of the first to buy into the Denon Prime ecosystem at full price and I’m blessed, I never had one hardware failure or glitch since my purchase during the summer of 2017. All though, I already own the full size gear. The prime 4 looks tight. But, I know from experience. I would never invest unless something is done about the engine prime software.

    Denon Engine Prime software is the Prime ecosystem weakest link and I don’t understand how Denon, even have the balls to introduce new hardware. When the media file software, even though the hardware is standalone, plays such a important part to the whole setup. Not trying to compare engine Prime software to the triple A pc software or ask for all sorts of bells and whistles. But, I never experience clunky software like engine prime since back in the days with windows 98. I only have the patience to move my favorites or the latest tracks to the software and prey I don’t have to hassle around the software playing the tracks in slow motion or some other disappointing glitch. Simply the software makes you work to dam hard to export for deck play.

    You fan guys and girls can disagree with me, if you like and sugar coat the problem. The engine prime software is garbage and I advise you, to save your money until Denon does something about it.

    1. 110% Agree. Engine Prime is hot garbage, and has been since it was released almost two years ago. The last update was a year ago, which gave us the ability to move our Playlists around. Dope, except it doesn’t work half the time. STILL no smart crates. STILL no flexible beat grids. STILL can’t organize crates the way I want to. STILL can’t organize songs within a playlist without them reverting back to numerical order. STILL the phase meters on the players don’t work unless you’re in sync. STILL asymmetrical pitch bending on SC5000. STILL the GUI will get stuck sometimes if you try to change the color of cue points, forcing me to hit ESC to get out of the menu, then go back into it to change the cue point color. STILL doesn’t automatically sync USB devices to my library.

      The most frustrating part of it all is that sorry ass excuse they give on the forums. “Oh we don’t want to introduce new features that break old ones”. That’s why you do small frequent rollouts. DUH! You don’t just dump one big update and hope things work. You improve on some things, make sure they work, release, repeat the process. You want people to change their rider but won’t copy the good aspects of Rekordbox to convince people to change their rider from CDJs that take so long to load a song with hot cues my hair turns grey and doesn’t even work with big SSDs, all for $7,000.

  6. Scs.4 and the Scs. 1 was really a he’d of their time.
    Still waiting for any multi layered controller to get motorized pitch fader. Maybe in a few years.

    Waiting for controlling vinyl with touch display at the label

    1. I have the very SCS.4 DJ linked in the review (I bought it when Mark had a sale) and it’s my backup device. It’s currently used on the Queen Mary 2 ocean liner to play outdoor parties. I’ll use it tonight as we sail away from India.

      I had the MCX8000 before that but sold it in anticipation of the new one. Standalone is a great way to go when far from home.

    2. There’s gonna be a lot of changes to the platter; wholes, grooves, bumps, sensors at the edge that connect to sensors arou d the edge(off platter), and even auto-cut will return in full force. Just dont expect it from big co.s
      All these brain wave burglars and thought thieves quickly forgot that the reason for the screens on the device and mixer was to try to get to this
      https://youtu.be/H-RrMiRToyk

      1. My real problem is that NONE of the available SW offers vinyl like track selection. Not even close.
        I would like 2 additional screens so I can get 2x crate browsing, cover based app for this task. Just like the good old days. Such a shame Serato remote is sooooo outdated. With a refresh it would be possible. Within a few weeks.

  7. There will be horizontal waveforms in a ‘future update’, they also said the ethernet connection on the 8000 was to control lighting software which was coming in a “future update”. If Denon says it’s coming in the future, then I get worried, coz you could be waiting years before public outcry becomes too much for them to ignore!! I’m still using my 8000, the screens still freeze from time to time. The S.A agents don’t even have a clue about the screen freeze issues, let alone know how to fix it. They never have spares in stock (I’ve actually started using aftermarket faders now). I’ve basically had to accept & come to terms with the fact that I got screwed when I bought the 8000. With that said though, this really does look like a sweet piece of gear. Am I ready to risk another 2 years worth of savings on it……. I really don’t know! But well done Denon, you really have pulled a rabbit with this one. Hopefully it works as advertised.

    1. Please contact your local service centre directly and talk them through what you want sorting. You may find the issues are personal to you, or there could be some real advantage for everyone in your comments. One thing is for sure, we will listen and we will react.

    1. I would think clubs have en empty DJ booth and DJs to bring their own equipment unless you are a star DJ. It’s trending that way anyway from what I have read.

  8. What happens if the screen fails/breaks? Will there be replacements 10 years from now? (or will they push you to buy the new version)…. Denon already had this solved with the 37/3900 — the extention to an ipad with the Engine software was way ahead of it’s time, if your ipad failed, get a new one, and even if it did, you could survive with the main display….

    Replace your laptop with something way bigger and heavier how is that better? I either have to stare at a big controller screen or stare at a big laptop screen, which is better as I can see more and do more…. if the laptop fails OR this fails, you are no better off.

    1. It’s a fair point. Touch screens can be fragile, and one would hope that these would last for some time. But being the one used in Akai Pro products, I imagine there will be a plentiful supply for some time to come.

      The same concerns can also be levelled at any components though. Faders, pots, buttons, and jog wheels are routinely abused, and possibly more than a touch screen. And given the price point, and the regularity that such things are updated, their market research probably shows that users are happy to replace full units on a fairly regular basis.

      Speaking personally, I’d be happy to never have a laptop in my DJ setup again. My needs are relatively simple — I don’t need a big library view, or expanded visual displays of hardware features. I just need a device that plays my music, with minimum interaction with the screen, but it’s there if I need it. And with the Prime 4, I wouldn’t need to carry a laptop with me, or make sure that it’s always up to date and up to supported spec either.

      Standalone isn’t for everyone, but there’s a growing voice that wants it. And for people like yourself who prefer the flexibility of laptops, there will always be controllers and software that work with them.

    1. These days, I find sound quality to be less of an issue than ever. Obviously it’s incredibly subjective and dependent on all kinds of variables. But I can’t remember the last time I plugged anything in and though it sounded bad. Everything sounds at least good.

  9. Good write up. It’s going that way – standalone, laptopless – “system” is the way to go. Given the price of reliable laptops these days, one less thing to buy is a good thing for budget-minded DJs, not to mention one less thing to worry about when packing for your gig. I don’t know why I am so fixated on spinning platters and haptic but I feel that these are a must for any new standalone system. Perhaps, it’s because the technology are already there and readily available? There is a very good chance that I am picking up a Prime 4.

    I have the following questions though:

    1. Can you record your set and save it to the internal hard drive or this function is only available for an attached USB?
    2. Can I save files, say from a USB to the internal HD?

    1. Number 2 has certainly been mentioned on the Denon DJ forum, and some people there can see the point (it’s supposed to be standalone and not require a laptop, so loading tracks shouldn’t require a laptop either) but I’m not sure if Denon do.

    2. Question 1. Yes you can record your set, to any device connected, including the internal drive, and even the drive you are using to play media. Your Mic feed will also be recorded so you can choose to make demo files of you just mixing or even the full performance including your speech if thats what you need to do for say a specific gig portfolio. It has a built in warning system to tell you a device is filling up so you can close the set before running out of recording time.

      Question 2. As the answer below states, it has been expressed as a request, DENON are on it. But you can connect the PRIME 4 to your lap top, and it will see it as a device, so media can be sent to the internal HD directly just like a normal hard HD or USB device. on a slightly different point but kind of relevant, you can however, move files around for playlist and prepare folder, so you can actually make playlists on the fly from multiple devices and although the actual files will stay on their respective device, the tag data gets saved so that as long as those devices are connected, the playlist can be recalled and used.

      1. Thanks for your replies, Richard. Regarding #2. So as soon as I plug in the Prime 4 to my laptop, I would immediately see it as an external device? This beg the questions: how will this work out with Serato DJ Pro when and if that becomes compatible and whether that will eat up more processing power? In theory, I could drag and drop a recently downloaded track from my laptop onto this external device and be able to read that on the 10″ touch screen?

  10. From what I’ve read and seen, the Prime 4 looks like a winner. I’ve been mainly a Pioneer user for the last decade but I’m considering purchasing this. What alarms me is the perceived lack of support from Denon with their existing customers. If you go on the official Denon DJ Facebook page, it’s just one issue after another with so many DJ’S pissed with the lack of updates and zero support. I’m not sure I want in on that….

    1. Please remember though, the people with problems will want to discuss them and want answers, so thats what you can expect to see and read. The mass market of owners where everything is running smooth and great, will either not be there, or just read but won’t comment. (a few do, but i see they get shot down all to often) so my point is you are only able to view the negative talk, not the positive.

  11. I really like it, but after the misadventures with MCX-8000 and the lack of support I opted for Pioneer XDJ-RX2.
    P. S. : I’m not a Pioneer fanboy and in the past I had Denon DN-S5000

    1. HI Vigor, it’s worth noting the Prime 4 is a completely different build to the MCX8000, though I do understand your concerns, I can assure you this is a very different beast!