114 Comments

1. Honestly they just add what was missing for me to go software-less :
   – track filter : this is how my brain work when mixing
   – pro dj link by usb : wasn’t sold on the lan switch + cables
   – 8 cues : I mark/slice parts of a song for visual/remix

   The fact that you are very close to a CDJ2000NXSMK2 is also appealing. (less toyish factor).

   But now, I need to buy a pair because you can’t play with only 1 deck out of a software… :p

2. If pioneer makes a high end laptop-less touchscreen unit like this in the rough form factor of the Kontrol S5 (or at least smaller than S8) then, for me, Traktor has had its day and so has my bank account. The Pioneer controllers I’ve seen tend to either be huge pro titans or a little toylike. I’d like to see a really high end standalone Kontrol S5 sized unit. They might need to drop the giant jogwheels to fit all that goodness in though.

   • Why to sell these if they could sell you a TOUR model?

     • Um.. because that’s a massive system that is never going to hit mass appeal and as I mentioned above, is a huge flagship titan and not something you can cart to a gig as an individual. The tour line is not really for individuals to own.. more for rental companies. I’m not looking for showy gear to compensate for anything, i’m looking for modern, elegant functionality.

       • Yes and it’s coherent for people but not the usual way of thinking of Pioneer.
         Also note how my comment was irony with some anger towards this fact ;)

         • Fingers crossed that this new ownership of Pioneer DJ sees differently!

           • I expect more from Roland but I’m somekind of masochist :V

3. With the added controller support and FLAC playback, this setup is looking like a champ to anyone used to “basic” Traktor DJing. Pio would do well to offer discounts on buying several decks tho, the price is still a lil high for “casual” users.

   Two of these decks, two TORAIZ samplers and a 4 ch pio mixer – quite a lot of possibilities! Could never afford it but dayum

4. And, of course, no word on HID for Traktor or Serato. Too bad.

   Native Instruments and / or InMusic really need to release a similar device in order not to lose more market share.

   I fear there’s going to be less choice on the market when Pioneer continues to release stuff like crazy covering every niche there is – while Native Instruments is heading in the wrong direction, and InMusic just releases cheapish bs.

   • Even if they would release such a device they still aren’t the club standard, so will not get used by the masses.

     • Oh, I’m pretty sure the “bedroom market” is by far bigger than the one for club installations. And not everyone wants to have the club standard at home – or can afford it. I’d rather go for a Kontrol J2 (portable Traktor modular controller with a full-size joghwheel) and take it to the Club, than switch to Rekordbox DJ.

       • InMusic owns Denon, other than Denon players that are HID/MIDI capable, there has been the DN-SC2000. Platter controllers from other companies are the Reloop Contour, DJ Tech Kontrol One and Stanton SCS.1d… to name a few.

         • True. But I would call none of these a “similar device”. They all lack more or less important features. Even the SC-2900 does not come close (no center display, shitty main display without touch, no HID support, etc.). There is nothing on the market that could be considered a professional alternative of high quality. I wonder that no one has filled the gap, yet.

           • The first thing I mention are Denon players, a few models have HID support.

             • Some of the Denon players could be used in HID if NI supported them… But they still lack a few important features.

               • No sure Denon have put HID into their firmwares. Never seen a line or document related to it.
                 Even the display is midi driven, so that make huge data packets to send continuously. HID is more like timeframed snapshots.

           • Maybe the sldz 1200 modded ones… Check them. Waiting from NI is a waste of time.

             • I’ve got one, will try to add midi later for the buttons/pads. So far, it have the same flow as a Technics Turntable, drag on release.
               My V7 is dancing circle around it.

               • Please share your experience and feelings. Pros and cons etc.
                 Happy to know it and I hope you enjoy it a lot. It’s a piece of history and how a Myth brand could go wrong until death and then some nice diyer fix which supa brands can’t or wan’t (read it want not lol) ;)

                 • I bought the mk2 DIY kit and did it a few days ago. First test shown no more drift so I’m happy with it.

                   2hours scratchs didn’t show any issues like, platter stuck, or motor weakness, a bit pricey for what it is but it really fix the deck.

                   I bought that deck on ebay with a dead cd-unit for 120€ so i din’t paid too much for that piece of dj gear history and won’t sell it even if i don’t use it. It’s just for the collection.

                   • I was talking to someone about the SL DZ1200 earlier this week, that’s pretty cool.

                   • Glad to hear about happy human being.

                     Thanks a lot, mate. ;)

       • The difference is that Pioneer DJ is an aspirational brand, so bedroom DJs will look to it as something to attain. Like the MP2015, it’s important for the software to be seen to work with this hardware.

   • Turntable?

     • No?

       • It seems it’s going well for them and you have an option. Pioneer tried to fill this gap and NI broke their alliance…

         • Did NI really break the alliance?

           • Well let’s look…
             Pioneer had cdj2000 NI compatibility, then lost it, then go with Serato and finally launched Rekordbox which is the only compatible now (is Serato compatible with this unit?). Rane sold to InMusic, Serat at Limbo…

             If NI wasn’t who broke it why Pioneer should do this so looooong travel to where they were 3 years ago?

             • Pioneer CDJ2000 had HID compatibility, so does the Nexus. It took a while for it, but it happened. The Nexus2 is still pretty new to the market, it might take that year to year and a half that it took for support on the Nexus.

               Before Rane was sold to InMusic, we saw a new partnership between Serato and InMusic. Look at the Akai AMX and the Denon DS-1.

               • But it was due to signed contracts (and to gain some time before Rekordbox enter the arena).
                 Now we see an unit without it and can’t blame nobody because each brands has its reasons. We could ask for but not being so child if they don’t want to hear (listening sure, hearing never lol)
                 About other brands and Serato, yes but again only time working. Since Rane has driver problems with OSX el Capitan the rabbit was in the hole. If you remember the NI stanton broke was for the same reason but the problem was timecode patents were from N2it meanwhile in Rane Serato issue these were property of Serato.
                 Let’s see what Roland brings ;)

     • Didn’t you say that:
       “Conclusion:
       In two years nobody will care about jogs (almost non motorized) but you will have still turntable support in the big apps developers which still stand up.”? You still think that?

       • Yes and I keep it. Turntable is still the most profesional motorized “controller”. People asking for NI alternative to cdjs when they had and will be turntables. The scs.1d was kicked out of Traktor in their next released version (14 bits sysex midi and clock from the “jog”) and later continue relasing mk2 versions until s8/d2… Which is still open to turntable set.

         So why to release a non so high resolution without motor platter jogwheel alternative to a… Turntable which is the most used motorized controller? Without motor… S1? Why? Who need it when we have lots of options and Traktor still keeps the “playhead” control cripped to s2/4 or timecode?

         NI has took their direction and left users play with turntables and all the button pushing gear. Serato has NS7 family and V7 never had mk2 version meanwhile NS7 has mk3… Mmm Denon 3700? Nop. Any single cdj or jog alone has not replaced turntables because it’s a disruptive paradigm shift drove by Ableton: non circular dependency grid based mixing/mashup.
         NI has implemented it in their own way Remix decks and Stems; Serato is trying with (aside failed bridge) Flip, midi clock and new Sp8 sampler…

         Pioneer goes its own and probably cdj drives will integrate full control of all (even toraiz) from link or maybe not and keep themselves in mixing only selling crap turntables for techincs lovers and these kind of ‘possin’ they usually made.

         So, again, yes. Pioneer try to keep them alive and release samplers and a new iteration of cdj (cd seriously) which works with RB and maybe scratch all the setup but it’s not a must for mixing POV. They could released an standalone turntable but not yet. One year go…

         Addendum: Maybe Roland bring something interesting with they new rumoured groovebox or maybe not. Let’s see. ;)

         • Pioneer isn’t the only company releasing Jog wheel units. And nobody isn’t going to stop caring about them in 2-years like you said. Just you : )

           • Wrong my friend. I left all of them years ago even turntables and you will see portablism (motorized), standalone turntablism and standalone units to integrate turntables. Also millions of jogwheels units but they will be affordable for nobody, even you ;)

             Edit: And most important… I have all the tools I need for my setup (or craft it myself when I can’t afford them or doesn’t exit) Could you say the same?

             • I don’t see your predictions happening. Jog wheel unit aren’t going to be priced any worse than they are priced now. Why do you think that Jog wheel units will all-of-a-sudden become unaffordable? I’ll always be able to afford a Jog wheel unit. Anything under $600 is affordable and there are literally dozens of Jog wheel units at or below that price. Some even of high quality. Not sure why that would change?

               • Ok, once again… Why neewbies should buy an unnexpensive jogwheel controller when these are seen as “toys” and “pros” aren’t unnexpensive? Why should buy them if their smartphone could do the same “toyism” with a 20$ app and controller doesn’t brings nothing new or fun? Why to do A>B mixing if they have something like launchpad app and affordable controllers (even behringer) and they don’t need to deal with this kind of discussion? Why brands didn’t released a dvs for tablet app (brands not die hardcoders like Gàbor)?
                 It wil be jogwheels next year and next 10? Probably.
                 It will be considered djing by djs? Who inows.
                 Turntables wil be the only truth? As usual.
                 Pioneer will release a new cdj without cd? Never.

                 So and so…

                 • Aren’t the Jog Wheels Alternatives just as expensive?

                   • It’s not only price, it’s revenue. Standalone jogwheel doesn’t seem worthy to NI. Why? I tried to explain all my insights about it over these madness conversation but I could be wrong. It doesn’t worry me.
                     Could you live if they finally didn’t release it? I could live if they do it or ot because I don’t need it.

                     Another interesting fact: NI copy/rivalize with every single xone unit in hardware realm but there is not unit for xone 1d. The most similar is F1 and it hasn’t jog.

                     What do you think about it?

                 • You keep mentioning the typewriter but it isn’t a good analogy. When I see folks doing tricks on turntables it looks like they are playing a musical instrument. Musical instruments for the most part always remain true to their origins. I’m not sure why you would consider scratching the same as typing? They are completely different.

                   • You could do music on typewritters too but it not makes sense for the majority of people. If you ask them make music with turntables (not mixing it) neither. So I dedicate so many years on help in instrumentalization fo turntable/scratch.

                     http://Www.skrat.ch and ScratchML to point two. Are you trying to explain what is scratching defending jogwheels? Don’t worry I done it to before you ;) Even sampling scratching or whatever surface scratching… But the point is Did you try to understand how scratch djs midset works? Or the brands which release hardware for djing? Did you try to release any kind of solution to fill these gap?

                     http://cdm.link/2011/08/scratch-this-a-diy-project-repurposes-dj-controllers-as-scratch-inputs/

                     Did you try to integrate timecode in Ableton?
                     http://cdm.link/2010/01/ms-pinky-max-for-live-scratch-anything-in-ableton/

                     Are you helping in any of these areas or only talking without any star in your belt?

                     But know what? It doesn’t matter because none of this makes me better or more right. Maybe you are the next Mudo. I’m passing away because everyone love to talk but only few work on something before.
                     Jm2c

         • Jog Wheels were never meant to replace turntables. The two can exist mutually coexist. Not sure why you think it has to be one or the other.

           • It’s not me, brands. Everytime someone ask for better jogwheel or rant about NI (or brand x) not developing the “right”jogwheel because there is a gap… There isn’t for them because it doesn’t worth the effort (revenue) or people doesn’t buy them because turntables or price. Is like people asking for the return of technics and then when they come in 4k$ people cry for price…
             When I said “nobody will care about” I was talking about asking for supergear which will not actual workflows or cost most than the most overpriced gear in djing (turntables and obviously the realone: technics. Pioneer nailed it bringing a mores expensive hanpin lol)

             So in addition to that Ableton opened the door for non-turntable djing and djtechtools teach people how to do the same with buttons and jogwheels meanwhile classic mindset djs keep them real with turntables or Pioneer cdjs (the boring standard) increasing a gap between old and new which will be never filled (almost by brands or at right price).

             Once again NI tried to fill it with Remix decks and stems but we are still living if they will be the future of sound or not. They bet sync and buttons over jogwheels (S8 vs S4) and keep the door open with Dvs but expecting something like V7 or Pioneer HID support is dreaming and don’t undertanding the NI’s business plan (sell hard/soft combo ala Apple)

             Who is going to keep turntablism alive? Thud Rumble mixer? In the year where Rane was sold to InMusic? Yes yes sure sure…

         • I’m sorry but you spell like crap. Learn to write in sentences you understand.

           • I reply this one million times over this conversation. Go and read all to understand better. IOTH Learn spanish and I will love explain it in my native tongue. Anything than this is your problem not mine.

             Jm2crapcents

   • Native Instruments will never release another unit with Jog-Wheels. Some stupid decision making is going on over there. Maybe if they wake-up they might do a real S5 replacement and not the S8 wannabe that we have now.

     • Here you nailed until you believed releasing a S5 (or S1) is something than anybody needs… Because their target have turntables or doesn’t need a jogwheel (S8)
       It’s sad and you could go mad with NI or me but it wouldn’t change the fact it doesn’t seems they will release anything in this direction or if they made will be:
       – Expensive as Pioneer or laptop dependency (like maschine)
       – Plastic and buggy (as Z1 or S4 mk2)
       – Soundcard integrated (redundant)
       – Nothing which satisfy nobody (nightmare and worst business decision in their life)

       Even in Z1/Traktor dj app you could notice how they marketed iPad as a turntable. Why to expect nothing in not all-in-one jogwheel direction? People could mix with X1 or S8/D2 without jog and even without physical crossfader…

       Seriously asking for these things in Pioneer new standalone focused towards Rekordbox unit is not understanding neither what the marketing and target of these brands are.

       I leave here my friends, this is not sane…

   • Pioneer DJ makes rekordbox. They gear all their new releases to it. They really don’t want you to use Serato DJ or Traktor. Unless something radically changes, I wouldn’t expect support for anything but rekordbox. It’s just another layer of work and support issues that takes people away from rekordbox, which in time will be as widely used as Traktor and Serato DJ.

     In fairness, inMusic has Denon DJ, Rane, and at the top end of their range Numark. That’s not cheap BS. The NS7III is still my favourite controller and is built like a tank.

     • If Pioneer is closing itself off to other software vendor certification, it’ll be a truly sad affair. Personally, I find the value in a piece of hardware to be it’s flexibility. It’s my opinion that the 2 most valued DJM at this point are 850 and 900NXS, due to dual certification.

       • It’s business pure and simple. They’ve probably done extensive analysis and concluded that they’d rather have people using rekordbox than supporting what is now third party competitive software.

         • I understand that it’s business, but I can’t help feeling that this will ultimately hurt them in filling club booths. If it turns into this mixer for software vendor A and that mixer for software vendor B, that a lot of clubs may just start to stock good old analog mixers like stpVx or the Model 1.

     • I was talking about single deck jog wheel controllers, not the manufacturers in general.

       Rane obviously makes awesome hardware (I have the 2015 and I love it!)
       Denon had some nice products, too. But their last decks (3700, 2900, 3900) were less than great in conjunction with Traktor. Even the SC2000 had some bugs.
       Concerning Numark I’m not aware of a single deck controller that works via HID with Traktor.

       On the other hand, the Traktor HID integration of the CDJ-2000 (and Nexus) was really tight.

       What I’m looking for is a similar integration of a high quality modular deck for Traktor, but not from Pioneer – and there is none.

       I think Pioneer’s closed eco system is the biggest threat to today’s DJ industry (and at the end to the choice of DJ hardware) and some of the other manufacturers need to react in an appropriate way.

       I’d wish for a controller similar to the D2 with a full size CDJ style jog wheel with a center display (why not go further and make it a high resolution display capable of showing a rotating cover art?), a moving waveform on a nice main display (maybe touch, as well) and all the other traditional CDJ features. That could be a great challenger to the XDJ-700/1000.

       Is it really that hard to make such a device?

       • Harder than you think. My 2000 NXS have rough waveform, but don’t have the same waveform display as a D2 when running Traktor in HID. The waveform display on the D2’s, as far as I know, are actually processed by the GPU through propriety code.

         • But NI already has that technology. They could just make the display bigger (or leave it at that size, it’s not that small), and add a jog wheel with a center display. Denon made a decent jog on the SC2900, too, using a different approach that Pioneer.

     • Placing Numark above Rane seems a bit of a reach regardless of one’s favorite controller. That is about as fair as saying that Numark isn’t even taken seriously in the pro DJ arena. While not my actual thoughts it is taking opinion and tossing it around as fact IMO.

       • Apologies — it’s the way it’s written. I’m referring to the top end of Numark’s range.

         • No apologies needed. Actually makes a lot of sense now LOL

5. I was about to complain that this version still doesn’t have tactile cue buttons, but if i’m reading the pressrelease right you can actually connect an SP1 and use the pads…. assuming that would work in standalone mode (not just with a pc/mac with rekordbox running)

   • Rekordbox DJ has MIDI map too, you can map an NI X1 or F1 or some Dicers if you happen to them kicking around.

6. “solid bang to buck ratio”?

   Not in this reality. Halve the price and we can talk.

   • Relatively speaking of course. But in what reality would a large touchscreen media player exist for £500-600?

     • Isn’t it called the XDJ 700?

       • So this reality then. I always forget about that one. Thanks for the reminder.

     • It’s not new tech. Is it even a capacitive touchscreen? The last one wasn’t.

7. What a nice firmware update. Oh wait… it’s Pioneer. Lets call this Mk2

   • They added a digital output and presumably higher quality internal hardware is inside ala the Nexus2. The mk 2 CDJ 900 also added a digital output and slightly better screen only a few years after the original CDJ 900 released along with the preNexus CDJ 2000.

     • Sorry, oversaw the digital out. I wouldn’t count on the the “presumably better audio quality” though.

       The majority of updates is software sided though and I am pretty sure that XDJ 1000 mk1 users will not get anything from it.

       Btw: “Multicoloured USB port: Colour-code your USB devices in rekordbox, e.g. red for techno or blue for drum & bass, and the light around the USB port will reflect that setting for ease of identification in the booth.”

       That must be the most useless feature ever…

       • Clever feature actually. Remember how some DJs would only burn singles to CD versus entire albums?

         I’d consider having a handful of low capacity USB with a selection of tunes/crates colour-coded for style or energy. I’m might have bright colours for early, dark for peak, different hues of the same colour to signify a genre of tunes with varying intensities…

         Visual cues for the digital age (in the absence of vinyl sleeves or CD cases) to help navigate a mix, rather than sitting through a single device and trawling through text.

         • You are aware that the USB port will glow and not the USB stick…?
           So the only thing this visual cue will tell you is that the playing track is a ‘blue track’ and you would still have to code / label your single track usb sticks.

8. this update def has got me step closer to pulling the trigger on a cdj/xdj ownership….

   The ommision of HID to non recordbox software is a bit of a bummer no biggie.

   What I would love to see tho is the ability to control xdj cues via the pads on the djm S9

   • Should wait for an R9 I guess…

     • Ha, so true :)

   • HID for other software is strictly up to support from the individual software companies themselves. Pioneer cannot make them support it.

     • Well you’d a thought all other vendors will be keen as fuck to get HID support on Pio gear. But with Record Box in direct competition it really wouldn’t be surprising if Pioneer start to shut shop in regards to supporting alternative software.

       For me personally it wouldn’t be a deal breaker any way, if you spend that sort of money on a standalone unit I’d rather jus use that unit for what it is.

       • This.

9. I wold sooo like to see a possibility to attach a usb keyboard for track searching. Touchscreen is great, but for some things I prefer real keys/buttons.

10. For the price of 2 of these, you can get 2xD2s a Z2 and and X1/F1 to spare if you wanted. These are nice, but they should be hovering around the $799 mark, they would fly off the shelves at that. But I am sure they will push out an XDJ700 MK2 soon… The XDJ1000MK1 had HID, I can’t see why this one wouldn’t?

    • If you gonna go down “the price of these” route comparing it to a non stand alone setup then you have to include the price of a decent laptop.

      Hid for record box only it seems, which tells its own story…..

      • I mean really then – take an iPad Mini + a Z1 + TraktorDJ = this… $600? If only NI would update the app.

        • I hear ya! And it’s certainly an argument I’ve been making against Pio gear for what feels like the last decade (and Traktor dj ;) )

          I jus can’t help but be impressed by the new mentally of Pio compared to the previous releases under the last ownership. Yeah they still take pricing liberties but I don’t think you can really blame them considering how much there clientele bum there kit and lap it up no matter the price.

          For me it seems like there really taking proper advantage of there brand nowadays and actually making great and interesting gear that comes pretty close to rivalling software features.

          Pioneer dj compared to the old pioneer that brought us little more than beefed up hi fi gear (and the shitty djm-t1….still bitter) really is starting turn this old sceptics head, I’m jus wondering which limb I can live without/sell off in order jump on board the Pio bandwagon.

          • Even the ToRaiz seems a worth buy if you don’t have a laptop/desktop like me. If NI updates the iPad app with support for F1 (mk2 surely) I will have all I need…

            • The no laptop thing is my position to and its things like the xdj, thud rumbles – invader and I guess the ToRaiz are all really making me question weather the current planned investment of a laptop really is required.

              Roll forward a few months and I’m sure NI will shake things up with new Traktor goodness and confuse me further.

              • Something is happening with Maschine and Traktor but when that happens who knows. I like these, but I just think they are still overpriced, this is almost like a cdj2000 minus the cd drive and a few buttons, just goes to show how much markup a cd drive is $1000+. You would think “the new Pioneer” would want to sell units. Maybe they only make 2000 of them at high prices – they don’t release sales figures but who knows.

              • My path is iPad so I hope you are right about NI but if not I will continue from my grooveboxing path until I can integrate somekind of turntable or bury them definetly and start banjo classes. :V

      • People always seem to leave that bit off, don’t they? I guess if you’ve already got a decent spec laptop then it becomes less of an issue but still…

    • These are only worth getting if you have a mixer with a digital input. These are great if you have a Allen Heath Xone D2/4 or a Nexus mixer already, but otherwise it’s a slightly nicer version of the exact same product.

11. For something that’s dead (Jog Wheels) there sure seems to be plenty of new products being released that has them, and also updating current units that have Jog wheels. What gives?

    • Do you know the history about Olivetti typewriters? Do you know how advanced was their last unit? Do you know how expensive was against newcoming disruptive technology called personal computer (and printer)?

      Look at similarities with Turntable, cdjs and post-pc era.

      Sent from my Olivetti

      • There are inexpensive jog-wheel units so I’m not really getting your point.

        • I know. The key is disruptive technologies.

        • Inxepensive with a nice resolution or a nice technology underneath that could prevent skipping/drifiting ?

          • Yes. My wego 3 works perfectly.

            • Wego vs timecode is lying yourself but for die hard scratching timecode isn’t enough so they never will replace fully the turntable due they need zero latency for some tricks. It’s not the “usual” nowadays but the gap is there. Numarks aren’t enough yet and keep them in Serato realm didn’t helps neither. Scs1d was open and know what? It worked with few software… When it finally done nobody cared; turntablist keep themselves with vinyl and dvs, controllerist keep themselves with controllers with or without jogs. It’s like mpc you know?

              • Who said anything about die-hard scratching? And I’ve seen masterful performances on a WEGO-3. Who said anything about Jog-Wheels replacing anything?

                • Brands!

              • I’d actually venture to say that the Wego-3 and my other unit (Reloop TM-8) had less sticker drift than my Denon 3900 timecode setup.

                • Sure because timecode has more, it’s inherent in the system itself. Also resolution is by far bigger in Timecode/noisemap vinyls make them more accurate for slow movements and that’s the reason behind:
                  – Die hard scratch djs use analog vinyl (the aaaah fx 99% of the time xD)
                  – Traktor upload the sinewave to 2Mhz for improve needle drop (even it could supose worst response in scratching)
                  – Serato keep the 1Khz (Ms. pinky is around 1.3Khz) as better for scratch (it’s related to dsp processing)
                  – Traktor closed the option to control player playhead from any kind of midi and develop their own HID protocol for their own hardware (Apple like) and sell standalone units or turntable complementary units. Until now every single hardware they release could work by itself as whole and because it’s supose turntable was and still is the pro standard for scratching they never released a jog or leave others do for them.
                  – Pioneer as “standalone player” (turntable enemy. They try to sell their cdj1000 in DMCs on 90s with booooo response from crowd) tried to control the playhead Traktor market and I supose THIS was the click for their broke and RekordBox project.

                  I could be wrong. I love to be but I don’t expect miracles from brands. The mantra with my friends is: They (brands) aren’t going to release (place the product you wish) and if they done it will be at price point we can afford because we are not pro. Pro don’t argue at this forums and don’t have time to waste dreaming or wishing because they are working with actual tools and take news when they are released.

                  Jogwheels have democratized djing and it has lots of good points but also negatives depending on oneself point of view. In my opinion jogwheel explosion as all-in-one is good for mobile djs but had killed the turntable factor. Maybe brands could alive it with groovebox sync (and scratch) but once again I can afford ToRaiz and probably whatever Roland Serato release soon. My luck is I’m less and less interested (in healthy way) and in some moment I will integrate turntable shaped controller into my setup but nowadays all the rest (groovebox remixing live producing gear) is where the interesting things happens. Let’s hope turntable (and jogs) will be interesting the next years, today they are not.

                  • Edit: Old Traktor TC is 2khz, since 2.5 timecode pilot signal (sine) is 2400hz.

                    • Thanks. I know it was almost twice due their ads “twice resolution than competency”. Anyways as more Hz more resolution but also more mesh with dsp at scratch and also more need of 24bits etc. More data more latency aka you need an i7 where Core duo was ok in the past. ;)

              • Not everyone is a pro. Jog wheels are plenty enough for even advanced scratching. Folks who buy them will never be DMC champions even if they used straight vinyl. The scenarios you are talking about doesn’t apply to most users. Just scratch DMC champions and folks close to that skill level.

                • Which are the people who expent more money in gear and who keep the “jog paradigm” alive until Ableton come. Jogwheels were a step in the middle which not make the proper revenue for these brands. Pioneer who is the actual flooder company of these units (making one for each segment) had old ads ridiculizing xponent and controllers. Pioneer as name is euphemistic since they didn’t pioneer nothing, only enter to market when it’s well stablished. ToRaiz seems new way of doing things but it stills has to root in users, not the regular which mix A>B… These users which have maschine or Ableton, these users which see Traktor as a Stem player or Remix deck. The future they see because they don’t see future on jogs (or almost they sold all they units and they are focusing on this new paradigm).
                  The scenarios I’m talking is one scenario: djing. The pros used turntables (with or without dvs) or Pioneer cdjs until Ableton come (why Serato tried to partner them if not?) and broke which was the definition of a Pro.
                  Jogwheels (even the most complex as Cdx/V7) were never seen as pro for the die hards (even I know some big names in my area using them but these are visionaries too) and where it should be a “bridge” we found an infernal gap.
                  So,
                  As I stated before jogwheels will be of course but meanwhile brands will focus in live remixingproducing as cdjs/timecode is an stablished standard for Pros workflows is a no sense wait NI releasing a Turntable or standalone jog even when it could be a great idea and marketing movement. It’s not about taste or love to, that’s your problem mate… I’m trying to point you that these things don’t come almost if you don’t work hard to make it happen by yourself and then the time to make/play music is gone.
                  Check the digitalvertigo forum I linked in the other comment and you will find active people doing things in this path. I expent more than 10 years (15 to be exact) from Ms. pinky to live looping trying to make things evolve in the most open way (few projects on my back) and this year will be the last I post or visit this kind of sites. I’m tired and I get old haha.
                  Peace.

              • I believe the latency can be minimized as to not pose a prob anymore, but the sound quality of DVS is still wayy behind analog vinyl. I cut my teeth on DVS but have since moved on to using a pdx3000 and real wax, and chirps on a DVS sound hella weak compared to real analog

                • That’s on of my points.

    • I know a lot of people that still rely on them, but I’m def patiently waiting for the 4 channel Serato DJ version of the S8 or equivalent. Hurry up industry.

    • Jog wheels is dead? Lol. Ur just the few people who doesn’t like jog wheels. I guess u don’t scratch at all or used a turntable before

      • I love Jog wheels. I was just calling out the folks who said that they were dead.

        • Lets see what Traktor 3 brings and lets hope they hear people like you. Anyways scratching is not a target for these brands anymore (and it makes it a dying development line even when some people still work to keep them alive)
          http://www.digitalvertigo.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=39357

          ;)

          Ps: sometimes those who seem more critic are those who carry a decade working and teaching. Noobs should listen and learn but it wasn’t easy never…

          • Hmmm… if the problem is an FPGA chip for USB support, wouldn’t he be able to use an Arduino instead of trying to reuse the ML1201E?

            • We are talking about what? It seems a conversation from digitalvertigo reverse hacking cdx lol. Explain me better please…

          • Scratching isn’t going anywhere. And there’s other software other than NI.

            • Scratching is a musical ghetto which has few revene to brands. Without revenue these stop evolving technology and focus in other areas (S8 without jogs right?)
              NI is the standard to fight and all this conversation started because someone ranted about not Traktor compatibility right?
              Look at the moon and let the finger, man!

      • Scratching with jogwheels, another big business…

    • Having enjoyed Vestax and Pioneer units for years I was reluctant to go with the Jogless Kontrol S5 but gave it a shot. Though I don’t personally scratch, I found the touch strips were actually really elegant for lining things up and quick needle drops/searches etc. It’s second nature now. I like the tactility of jogs wheels but without them the S5 packs so much stuff into a small package. The space allows more dedicated performance buttons, that enables more spur of the moment fluidity. Different strokes for different folks but it fits my usage pattern. Not saying anyone is wrong. To me the S5 and S8 hardware feels a full generation or more ahead of where the Traktor software is.

12. I really do wonder if Pioneer’s decision to lock out Serato and Traktor users has had a negative effect on their bottom line.

    In the past most clubs upgraded to the next gen players selling off the old stock to part offset the upgrade. Before the current NXS2 range, the standard club basics was a pair of 2000 CDJS, DJM900NXS, Xone 92 and an SL4. This covered almost all resident and touring guests while specialist gear was hired in on request.

    I hire DJ equipment to around 25 clubs ranging in capacity from 600 to 1800 and NOT ONE of them have bought the NXS2 range. The reason is simple: they cannot sell their current setups to upgrade to the NXS2 as 2/3rds of their DJs don’t use and have no desire to use Rekordbox.

    I know of one 2000 capacity club that did buy the NXS2 range and sold on the NXS stuff not realising they didn’t support other software. They ended up buying back the NXS setup leaving abad taste that they had ‘wasted’ £5000 on a setup that the majority of their DJs didn’t use.

    • Cdj2000nxs2 and xdj1000 work with traktor. Why wouldn’t the xdj1000mk2?