There are many “numbers” involved in business. I deal in web stats, impressions and clicks. These are important to manufacturers, as are piffling things like sales, margin and market share. But Native Instruments’ business model allows them to get a bigger slice of the market share whenever the discounting mood takes them. And their just announced 5 day long 50% off sale is a perfect illustration of this, and got my mind racing on the various business models used by the manufacturers to peddle their wares to the masses.
I’m going to look at the big 3 – NI, Serato and Atomix aka Virtual DJ to show the differences and similarities in their approaches. It would be fair to say that Traktor and Virtual DJ are not so different in their offer – an off-the-shelf product that is often bundled with hardware. Their approaches to the market are slightly different though – NI make Traktor, sell it as a standalone boxed product through the retail chain, and make their own hardware that works 100% hand in hand with the software. They also used to bundle Traktor LE with other controllers, but I sense a definite slowdown in this area in recent times. Indeed, I have come to liken NI to Apple – I feel that a truly integrated and possibly exclusive workflow approaches where Traktor compatibility will be entirely in the hands of end users and manufacturers with no bundled versions being sold. And knocking 50% off an already cheap price enables just about everyone to grab a copy and thus massively extend Traktor’s market share. End users will always be looking for Traktor mappings, even for units not designed for it.
Virtual DJ is a little different. You may not realise this, but there is no boxed retail product. You cannot walk into your local DJ shop and grab a copy. And because of the agnostic nature of Virtual DJ, hardware is rarely made specifically for it. Stanton’s DJC.4 comes to mind, if only for the video button. Virtual DJ has always been around, shifted stratospheric numbers and sits pretty safely in the middle of the compatibility pack – almost every controller’s friend, even those that Traktor really doesn’t get on well with. But again, Virtual DJ can also be discounted, but it’s not something that they really do as their market share is almost beyond the realms of comprehension anyway. And whereas Traktor has paid major upgrades, Virtual DJ is free for life after the initial purchase, which for the version lacking DVS and full screen video is the same $99.
And then we come to Serato. As far as comparing approaches, Serato don’t sell you anything at all. They sell licences to hardware partners and work with that revenue. Yes they do have their own products like Serato Video, but “Serato” as you know it is in fact Rane licensing Serato’s “Scratch Live” package and Serato offering after sales support. And for DJ Intro, ITCH and Serato DJ hardware partners, it comes down to Serato selling licences based on required features and projected sales. And it’s only with the advent of Serato DJ’s upgrade path for existing customers that they’ll actually begin to see some revenue directly from the end user. So there is little that Serato can do to stimulate market share and revenue, other than hope that people buy more hardware from their partners forcing more production runs.
So you can immediately see the huge difference in approaches. From the all important market share perspective, Traktor and Virtual DJ can be discounted to almost nothing and sold (the important factor when it comes to figures) in a bid to get market share. Serato’s model however depends entirely on their partners selling more hardware, which thankfully for them, people like to do quite a bit of.
NI’s tactic has paid huge dividends in the past. The last 50% off sale cleared the shelves of Audio4 and Audio8 Traktor Scratch packages, and massively redressed the market share with Scratch Live. And as Virtual DJ 8 approaches, the already cheap Traktor Pro just became stupidly cheap, and may well bring people to the Traktor yard instead. Call it a preemptive strike if you will.
For the money, it feels like one of those things that is worth a go, just to say that you have a full version of Traktor. Be warned though – tactics like this usually have a sting in their tail, and that is normally an all new version coming along that requires a small but paid upgrade. Granted, NI pretty much gave everyone a free copy of Traktor Pro 2.5, but the move from 1 to 2 incurred a cost. And if my gut is correct, the next upgrade (not update – there’s a difference) is going to be quite epic, and will most definitely be a necessary purchase.
So I cast this open to you – for the price of a few beers with your mates, are you tempted to grab the full fat Traktor while it’s on sale?
Nice article Mark.
Can you, at this time, ellaborate on the epicness you think is coming with the new traktor ?
Do you think the new controller manager is coming with this version of traktor or will it be coming solely to the new version.
Will NI ever unite their holy trinity seamlessly? That would be pretty epic =)
I’m going on gut instinct more than based on any fact. So for now, I’ll reserve judgement. On the internet, these things have a habit of rapidly becoming quoted as fact. I have mentioned the trinity before, and I believe that will happen, but as for specific Traktor features… I have hunches, but nothing more. That said, they have a habit of panning out.
I don’t care who does it first, but as long as one of the DJ software companies adds warping they’ve got my money.
Warping? Torq as something called Tempo Anchors for years. Not exactly warping like Ableton Live but pretty close….
And Itch has tempo anchors as well. Not sure about SSL, though.
“Torq software is currently not available for sale” kinda puts a damper on that idea. Besides, I just had a look at a video on tempo anchors, and as usual it simply involves moving the grid to fit the music – not the music to fit the grid.
VDJ8 will groovin, you know this though… As I always say though, your better off using ableton to pre warp your tracks and re-record them.
No, I don’t “know this” because I don’t have access to VDJ 8 yet. All I can go on is what’s been mentioned in preview videos – and it sounds to me like it still involves moving the grid not the audio.
Flexible beat-grids is the main thing NI is truly missing. If I were to be niddly, I’d say that a dedicated brake and censor function is missing too, but I don’t miss that as much as flexible beat-grids.
I suppose that I should mention overlapping waveforms. People always bitch about that too.
There is another aspect to NI’s rock-bottom prices which is important; the effect on levels of piracy.
By giving such big discounts (and Traktor Pro is hardly overpriced now in any case), and giving away full licences with their hardware like the X1, NI are making it very hard for all but the most ardent pirates to justify using cracked copies.
Although a die-hard Serato user, I also own a Traktor Scratch package, and it’s very easy to sell my friends who use cracks on the idea of always having the current version, plus support, when the cost of registered software is so small.
The minute I saw this deal I was straight on the phone to a couple of mates, who are now fully paid up and officially customers of NI. Seems like a good plan to me.
A good point well made. Piracy is an issue, especially for for expensive apps. Hopefully, low prices will make more people legal and as you say, getting support.
Good thing is NI now sells hardware as well which can’t be cracked. Having people buy a legal Traktor-version might just be the entry drug. If you want to use more elaboerate features like the remix decks you’ll have to shell out one or the other Benjamin.
its definitely a “gateway drug”, one of the things i wanted to state is how saying that with the x1 or this black friday deal, saying that youre getting the full version of traktor is misleading as you will not get scratch functionability. something thats easy to overlook when youre excited to get some new kit, you get home and find thats not the case, ha and then you get sucked into giving them more damn money.
I don’t feel that it’s misleading. NI have always been very clear about the distinction between Traktor and Traktor Scratch. That comes down to research on the part of the end user, something that is often overlooked, but not any manufacturer’s fault.
Alright, still feel it’s a deliberate marketing move. You hear “full version” and you look at the price of an x1 and it’s hard not to just be like “oh that’s a hell of a deal” and pick one up from the shop next time you see one. It’s hardly a deal breaker or anything, just seems like a way to artificially make the price look lower then it really is
Yes. Simple answer, will it make me swap from ITCH no (well not yet) but a I’m going to move over to the CDJ2000’s as my next choice then it will come in rather handy
I’m not gonna lie, I’m tempted to purchase Traktor now. But the question is do I really need it? I’m not the type to buy something that I don’t need just because it’s on sale. I primarily use Numark V7s which of course are Serato ITCH controllers so Traktor would be useless to use with those. I have a couple of Numark TTXs lying around collecting dust so I guess buying Traktor might me a good reason to dust off the decks, buy a sound card and give Traktor a whirl but it would just be for sh*ts and giggles. Also, I’m planning to buy a Pioneer DDJ-SX soon which uses the new Serato “DJ” software so Traktor doesn’t really fit into the picture. But, Traktor is a solid software and it’s hard to pass up on such a good offer. Btw, I used to use Virtual DJ but stopped using it since I bought the V7s because despite Atomix’s claims that VDJ would play nice with the V7s… they don’t. Sure Virtual DJ works with just about every controller on the market, but it sucks with the V7s thus rendering VDJ useless to me now. If I was planning to go back to vinyl and timecodes I’d be all over buying Traktor, but now I’m using midi controllers so do I really need to buy Traktor just because it’s cheap? Hmmmm, decisions, decisions, decisions.
And this is my same problem with Traktor, the lack of total support for the best motorized midi controller for DJs, the Numark V7 and Numark NS7! You are right, they will work with VDJ but its to as flawless as Serato Itch. Also, most of us will have to wait until April to get the Serato DJ update! Crazy. If Native Instruments would just get their heads out of the sand and have Native Support for the V7’s, it would be a whole different ball game for Turntabalist. But alas, they are too scared to support the decks natively and we will be left with just the turntable option for turntabalism and midi controllers. Hey Traktor you hear that, another one of the thousands of current and potential NI software users who want your “industry standard software” to work with their superb decks! My advice, don’t waste money on a software company that will not support your decks, wait for Serato DJ and keep pestering NI until their Midi programmer figures out that Native support for the NS7 and V7 would make their software a killer combination for DJs!
I have no doubt that Ni could make it work, but looking at the 4Trak/NS6 scenario, it goes way beyond MIDI mapping and would require custom firmware, which takes a lot of time to create and would doubtlessly lead to more support issues. And if you look at the number of people who would want to use Traktor over ITCH, it’s just not worth the work, nor is there any financial incentive for NI or Numark.
I’m sorry people, but given the age and performance of the NS7 and V7, Traktor is never going to work as well as it does with ITCH on those units. They were sold as ITCH specific units, and there should be no expectation of them working with anything else. MIDI might be a universal format, but the limitations mean that to get the best performance, hard coding outside of the confines of this ancient protocol is the only way. And I really don’t see this changing. In fact, I think it’ll get worse.
Mark, I highly respect your opinion but I disagree on the financial incentive and making it work for NI. The reality is that NI has been pushing their software as the industry standard for the past two years especially towards Turntabalist. Many of the videos they’ve produced featuring folks scratching using Traktor appearing on this site and others. My gripe is that offering Native support for the Numark NS7 and Numark V7 would mean that thousands of Numark users would quickly switch over from Itch to Traktor. Traktor is the superior software in terms of features for many users, thus the financial incentive for NI. I even believe that if they charged a small minimal fee for Numark users to pay to use Traktor with the V7’s, most folks would pay.
As for costing NI dinero to do this, not really. A NATIVE version of Traktor working with the NS7 and V7’s does exists and was demonstrated by Numark to Native Instruments. Our friend Simon Bangs can easily confirm this as he’s done on other forums. Numark showed NI that it could work and NI got scared and said that they wouldn’t support it; few months later they are pushing the smaller and fragile quality build S4. Yes, the NS7 and the V7 were released a few years ago but guess what, you and I both know there is nothing in terms of build quality and response time to this day that is touching these decks. When these things were released, they are the equivalent of the the Technic 12000’s for the modern age. They work, they were built with many if the features DJs have been asking for but NI has been scared from day one to support them even though a simple trip to the Serato and NI forums would show that users of these decks want/need/demand that they be natively supported by Traktor. If a simple DJ like DJ Quartz can get the decks to almost work great with Traktor using Midi, imagine what these decks can do if NI said yes to the Native version Simon Bangs demonstrated to them. Denon has hybrid support for multiple software, there is no reason that this Itch controller can’t have the same. In the economy we are in today, companies like NI can’t continue to piss off users of their software who just want their decks to work with their hardware of choice. This is why Serato and even VDJ have taken away NI market share and will continue to do so. Also, it’s why users like me who have used these Numark V7 decks and know their true potential and power, will continue to call them out for not supporting the best built midi controllers in the DJ scene. People might disagree but you yourself in these same forums have stated the next levelness of these decks. In 2012 and 2013 there is still nothing in terms of build quality for Midi controllers geared towards Turntabalist that comes close. Native Instruments can and should support them natively by working with Numark. It’s that simple, give Traktor and Numark customers what they’ve been asking for…
I’m still not convinced that making the V7 and NS7 work properly for Traktor would have any benefit for NI at all. Granted, there have been excellent people like Quartz making moves in the compatibility area, and there are some who simply won’t buy ITCH units because they don’t work with Traktor.
But the vast majority of those thousands you speak of seem perfectly happy. A few people shouting on the Serato forums is but a small percentage of the bigger and seemingly happier picture. They bought the units knowing they didn’t work with Traktor with no expectation that they would. Some bought them thinking that they would, but they were never sold with specific Traktor ability outside of a manufacturer supplied mapping. And given the price that Traktor has fallen to, it’s likely that these same people already have Traktor anyway.
You have to understand that this is first and foremost a business. While NI genuinely care about the stuff they put out, it’s all about selling units. And with NI in the hardware and software business now, why would they offer Traktor compatibility to competitive units? They want you to buy their hardware, and for the few extra sales of Traktor, it’s not worth the lost sales and infinitely greater profit in selling you their hardware. They still get the market share they want.
Yes, I do love the NS7 and V7, but for what they are. I happen to love ITCH, for its complete and total simplicity and ease of use. I have never once wished for Traktor compatibility, because out of the box these units did everything I needed them to without resorting to mapping. And I’m quite sure that’s the same story for the majority of users.
As for turntablism – you’ll note that NI only use Shiftee and Craze on turntables. They tend not to promote other manufacturer’s hardware in their videos. And given the strong possibility of an NI tabletop player in the future, I see little chance (unless it garners them significant market share like with HID and CDJs) of them adding compatibility for other jog wheel units any time soon.
Bottom line – NI will gain little by adding support for the Numark units. A handful of extra Traktor licences perhaps (but they’re addressing that with the 50% off anyway), but also lost chances of people buying S2, S4 and whatever they have in the future. And let’s not forget the likely increase in support issues too.
Put yourself in NI’s position – other than the potential for a few more licences, do you genuinely think the positives outweigh the negatives? Perhaps I’m too pragmatic in my thinking, but supporting old units at the expense of sales for current and future hardware just doesn’t add up from a business perspective.
It’s time for people to realise that we’re in a time where you have to make a choice. Do not expect Serato DJ units to work with Traktor, because NI units certainly won’t work with Serato DJ. And I don’t see that changing. Make your choice at the time of purchase and don’t expect that change, or have any expectations of jogwheels working properly outside of the software they were made for.
Mark, I will agree to disagree. NS7 and V7 users are not happy and to limit the thousands of buyers who were originally told that Traktor would support these decks, to only a few posting on forums is just not plain true. There are plenty of social media and online channels where respected and professional DJs have cried foul to NI refusing to support these decks natively. Just go read Quartz frustration with all his work only to find out that NI was simply scared of supporting the V7’s.
You are right, most of the V7 users probably already own Traktor but this further proves my point, if NI would simply offer native support for the decks, it would help to increase their share in that the more folks see their product on professional level decks, the more would buy their software and more important, PAY for their updates. Ther are plenty of Turntabalist, including yourself who have spoken that these decks are the evolution of the turntable for Midi controllers; NI refusal to support them shows how out of touch they are with the scene and with business. Again, they make their money on the cheap build S4 while companies like Atomix keep stealing their potential customers by making sure VDJ shows customer service by supporting the Numark decks.
You are right, Numark is working on a deck but we both know that it will not be motorized. And if it was, which I highly doubt, it sure as hell will not have the build of the V7 or NS7. Again, if they want market share, they can easily support these decks natively and make money of charging for the updates like they already do. Also, it would give them an edge to stealing back Serato users.
I have yet to meet a DJ who uses either of these Numark decks who is not frustrated that Traktor doesn’t want to support them. If they supported them Natively, I guarantee you that more DJs would buy them and use them with Traktor and a small controller instead of with Itch. You might like the simplicity of Itch but the features of Traktor is what the owners of Numark decks want and demand.
Mark, I’ve been reading your blog for a long time and I respect what you do however I’m a little disappointed with your stance. For years you talk about the demise of turntabalism and the rise of cheap controllers that plain sucketh! You speak of replacement for the Technics and along comes the Numarks that check all your boxes. We have a replacement for the Technics in the modern age and they are the Numark V7’s, which you proudly show in photos in your blog. Yet you’ve taken the stance that Native Instruments will not and should not support these decks because they are Itch controllers? That all the Turntabalist and DJs who originally bought these decks because they were promised Traktor support are SOL when it comes from NI?! That we as DJs shouldn’t demand better from companies like NI who want our dollars?! Frankly I see that as a cheap cop out instead of taking a stance. Your website has power, you have power and the Numark users who read and have read this site are demanding that NI stops the games and supports the decks. You are extremely powerful in this industry and so is this site, to take a stand that we allow NI not to support Traktor users by giving Numark motorized decks native support is sad. You as a respected DJ and someone who reviews hardware and sometimes speak for the DJ community can easily be a motivator to make sure that NI does right for its customers and V7 users. Look, I just can’t believe that NI can simply say to you and to DJs “we are not supporting these great decks” and folks like you, yes you and the DJ community are just suppose to punk down and not say something? Come on, prove me wrong! I expect better from DJ Worx and I know that deep down inside you know that with pressure from you and all the other DJs asking for support the last few years, NI would give us what would be a major game changer in the industry in terms of HID decks and Traktor.
I’ll leave it at this, what I like about this website compared to other DJ sites is that you have never been scared to call companies out on their bulls$&t and on their cheap product. Along came the Numark V7 and you finally found something that satisfied the Turntabalist in you, something that had the potential with proper support to become an industry standard for Turntabalist seeking a midi/HID option. Why give up on making the dreams reality because some company executive told you they can’t see the financial potential of what their product with these decks would mean to the scene. Are we to be stuck with Pio’s getting all the love while Numark and Denon build better decks that get sh$&&ed on by NI? NI can and should support these decks but until folks like you who have the power to influence them to do the right thing, the rest of us will still be standing in the dark forced to buy cheap build controllers that pale in comparison to the Numark V7 and NS7.
Respect to DJ Worx. Keep doing what you do, we can agree to disagree but I will still be a loyal reader of this site.
I love V7 users; perhaps the most deluded DJs on the planet. I’m very pleased that you have found hardware which you love so much and suits your needs so perfectly.
Doesn’t change the fact that in the grand scheme of things, nobody bought them. Numark didn’t discontinue them because they were too popular…
Complaining that NI won’t natively support a product which is both discontinued and (at best) niche, seems a little bit pointless.
You said deluled, lol. Really? Why do you ASSume that Numark stopped making large batches of these decks because folks didn’t buy them? Wrong assertion and one that Simon from Numark can easily clear up if you do a quick search. Actually, a google search online will show you that the Numarks sold very well, so much so that Serato will support them with the Serato DJ updates and that they are still selling among true turntabalist and those that want a vinyl feel controller but with a non-plastic quality build. Plenty of DJs tour with them and testify to their superiority as true 1200 replacements. As for Delusional comments, LOL, yeah that’s the same thing folks said originally about the Technic 1200 folks and we all know how they influenced the culture. As for niche, ALL these controllers could be labeled Niche as is the DJ community. The reason these decks are beloved by many of the users who have actually used them is that they work, plain and simple. They can be used in multiple genres and they give you the feel of actual turntables minus the weight but with more features (Cues, Loops, Search, Bleed, and more…) They have cult status because they demonstrated what proper R&D along with actually caring about the folks who use your product can create, a set of DECKS that are the closest to actual turntables but still have many of the Midi controller functions DJs want. What’s pointless is allowing a DJ company to sell you a set of software that they bill as the industry standard, only to be told later they will not support your decks of choice because they are are scared those decks blow their cheap controllers out of the box. The Numarks are not discontinued, they are just not making as many as they use to because NI refused to support them, which was the biggest complain folks had with them. You want Niche, I dare you to put your cheap controller or overpriced Pio’s against a DJ like Cerla, or Jazzy Jeff or Biz Mark, or against any of the folks who have used the Numarks in DMC demos. It’s like comparing apples to oranges. Here’s the funny issue, by this time next year you will continue to see DJs posting on these very forums that they are tired of cheap plastic Midi controllers that don’t offer you proper response time or CDJs that cost more than a used car and break easily. We have something that shook the industry, thus why you see Numark users who are vocal about NI stepping up and supporting owners of Traktor to give native support for the decks. It’s up to Industry folks and sites like this to understand the ramifications of NI becoming a one trick pony that forces you to only use their cheap build products rather than creating a product that can be used by all and that actually works. Seems that a small company in New Zealand and France could actually teach them something about Customer loyalty… Thanks for your comments, gave me a giggle for the day.
I rest my case.
I’m a NI follower since Traktor DJ first version. And I’ve never bought their software at full price (traktor, komplete, maschine, and so on), simply because they always offer you an alternative way. You get coupon codes when registering a product (hardware or software), you get ridicolous upgrade/crossgrade prices for what they offer (example: 99 USD to get Komplete 8 update Boxed with 12DVDs). I get discount codes at least once a month for expansion packs, hardware, vst’s and so on. They produce their own software and hardware, they have the power to compete on the market more than anybody else outside there.
The only thing I’d like to point out is that although the software is so cheap,the minimum requirements to use it are still quite high.
What this leads to is people with low spec machines, trying to run high end software which bugs out for whatever reason.
That could have a negative effect as the user thinks the software is crap.
With Serato, I think they did well to make existing controllers work with their intro software. No setup issues, no compatibility problems, just works.
#justsayin
That’s why I still use 1.2.7 it is light on my computer, and I can cover all my fancy clip launching and production-like gimmicks through Ableton…
The gits. I just bought Traktor at full price. Grrrr
It should be noted that the $99 version of Virtual DJ doesn’t support midi controllers or advanced audio config (USB audio interfaces). So if you need those, which most DJs do, you’re paying $299 for the full version.
But yeah, free upgrades for life is still a great deal.
Traktor is responsive when match with hardware, see specs.
Is solid and build on, the controller need lots of buttons to get the juice out of Traktor 2 Scratch Pro
Traktor has been crazy hard for me to learn, but I really like how NI is doing things lately. Modular design for the win
I use Traktor, I have found it to be quite agreeable. The level of control that you can attain seems endless. I am new, but I keep finding new and interesting things every time I go to fiddle with something.