Going turntable cold turkey with Denon DJ Prime

The Denon DJ Prime units finally are being released into the wild. And we've got our review units in the Worxlab. So what do you want to know?

Denon DJ Engine Prime (3)

Being a gentlemen DJ of advancing years, I cannot remember a time in the last decade and a half when a set of turntables, a mixer, and a stack of vinyl wasn’t within mixing and scratching distance of my hands. But that changes today. With the arrival of the Denon Prime SC5000 media player and X1800 mixer, I’ve decided to remove any temptation to revert to type, and immerse myself in Denon DJ’s brave new world.

So away went the Reloop RP-8000s and the Rane Sixty-Four, both packed in their boxes, and out of temptation’s way in the Worxlab attic. Importantly, I won’t have to find space for a laptop either. And although I’ll hardly be a fish out of water, this will be the first time I’ve had a pair of media players and a mixer in to review together. Even after all these years, the only time we had a full Pioneer DJ CDJ/DJM setup in was for a video shoot.

So I enter this with zero trepidation, quite the opposite in fact. Having already had most of this setup in the Worxlab if only for an hour many months ago, I already know that I’m going to relish this a lot.

Going turntable cold turkey with Denon DJ Prime

OVER TO YOU

Here’s how this is going to work — we’re starting with the new Engine Prime software (check here for the countdown), moving to the SC5000 Prime player, and then the X1800 mixer. And at the end of all that, we’ll tell you how well they all work together. And this is where you come in.

This is your opportunity to get questions in for us to cover off in the reviews. It’s best to find out the things you need to know ahead of time, especially if you’re waiting to throw credits cards at your screen depending on the answer.

Going turntable cold turkey with Denon DJ Prime

These naughty little minxes will remain in their safe places until Tuesday (public holidays in the UK which I fully taking), after which point I’ll be working out if I take pictures first, or just dive in and then worry about fingerprints later. But in the meantime, get your questions in and we’ll do what we can to answer them ahead of time. And we’ll also post links to manuals when we have them too.

It’s fair to say that there will be a veritable carpet-bombing of Denon DJ Prime coverage from the DJ media types over the next month or so. And as ever, you can be sure that ours will be the most in-depth and detailed around. And it’ll pull no punches either — while we have high hopes for this gear, it’s important to give a balanced picture of the highs and lows. After all, it’s a shedload of coin to drop so we want to make sure that we cover everything for you.

So… what do you want to know?

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Mark Settle
Mark Settle

The old Editor of DJWORX - you can now find Mark at WORXLAB

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140 Comments

  1. For those who have been following, only Engine prime is really still the great unknown quantity and a fair bit is riding on it.

    What surprises me, reading comments from many sources is how uninformed many in this industry are. In just about any other industry keeping up with innovation is almost considered part of the job.

    Theres also alot of hate out there for something that could potentially effect the industry in many positive ways.

    A good, hard, really indepth (theres alot to cover), fair review will hopefully help a few to realise that there’s good options out there.

  2. alrightee, $1800 sounds outlandish, but I’ll think about it if they’re sturdily built and work like they’re supposed to. if you want to get my attention, I want to hear a mix, that’s what this is all about. i’d be interested in a description of how much prep work, expected and unexpected, had to go into it, and what tools were available to spice it up. secondly, let’s see a scratch test. last, but not least, what do you “feel” in regards to set-up time, presumably “pushing 3 power buttons” as opposed to whatever that set-up process is with a computer. I love the simplicity of flipping the switch and “having a go scratching” instead of having to use dvs and a computer, with my 5500s.

    • If people will pay ~$2200 each for a piece of Nexus 2 gear, I feel like the $1800 is pretty competitive. Frankly I think any price lower than that would undermine consumer confidence in the product.

    • If you pay full retail on anything you are not looking around the net! I have seen them for as much as $200 less then the MAP price. Make sure to do some searching and shopping before you make any purchases!!!

  3. ok one i want to know how well you can “scratch ” on these. I am also looking at these for the sole reason of no longer wanting to deal with a laptop so how well will it work for a mobile dj ( no predetermined sets) so relying on a hard drive with lots of songs and taking request and what not

  4. Mixer
    Can you please check the knobs of the mixer? Are they metal? Bolted to the housing or the main board?
    Please consider making a video of the effects (without talking over it, of course).
    Also an in-depth look at the settings menu would be great.

    Media Player
    A comparison of the jog (feeling, tension) vs the NXS2 would be awesome.
    How do the pads perform?
    What’s the screen like in direct sunlight?
    How accurate is the internal analyzing (without engine)?
    How does the jog behave when used with wet / sweaty fingers?

    Also I wonder what the status on Traktor certification and HID support is.
    When I read your first article covering the SC5000 it sounded like it would stand firm.
    But Denon has been avoiding to answer that question in last few months.

    For me, Traktor support is THE deal breaker.

    • I always check the mixers pots — it’s one of the first things I do. I can also do a video of the effects, although I imagine Denon DJ would have that covered anyway.

      As for Traktor being the deal breaker — all I know if that it’s being kicked around still. No confirmation at all though.

      • Effects were barely covered, yet.
        I often wonder why people struggle to use them in a good way. Youtube is full of bad FX demos.

        As for Traktor I hope that they’ll make certification and HID control happen, soon.
        It should be a no-brainer to add this (especially for the european customers).
        NI seemed to be a lot more open to third party hardware lately.

        • Check DJTT, they recently did a +1h long video, all of the FX were demoed and I was impressed how good they sounded. Even with no Engine Link (CDJ’s were used) so bpm wasn’t entirely on point and quantized.
          Don’t count on Traktor HID, it requires negotiation on how much $$$ is somebody willing to pay. NI had a good reason to be compatible with CDJ’s (because that also meant Traktor can be in every club’s DJ booth) but with this….they will want money. And Denon probably thinks that HID with third-party software brings nothing significant to the user (and they might be right in this case) while costing them money for each sold unit.
          On the other hand, TSP certification for the X1800 is probably a 100% deal. I’m wondering will X1800 get a separate ASIO driver or it be a 2.23 upgraded version….

          • That DJTT video was good, but contained a lot of talk and a not overly prepared presenter (no offense).
            There’s still room for more.

            Traktor HID is a must for the european scene, as a lot of DJs here still use it.
            If Denon has the aspiration to end Pioneer’s dominance in the booth, they better negotiate a good deal with NI real quick.
            NI on the other hand should be very interested in partnerships like these to disrupt Pioneer’s rekordbox DJ strategy and becoming obsolete in the long run.

            • Yeah that was the initial unboxing first impressions impromptu live presentation, I think he mentioned that they’ll be diving in with a more prepared, detailed examination of everything.

                • Yeah, he wasn’t prepared but still, he was decent regarding the FX’s and even pretty good with timing and track selection, I remember hearing Beatbreaker fx and thinking: “damn, I have never heard it sound so good on my mixer”.
                  I was also impressed with manual bpm input options (coarse and fine selecting with the encoder).

  5. Did scratchworks ever did a review of X1600 and X1700? Would be nice to have some thoughts on differences between the old and new generations of Denon mixers, not just comparison with NXS2.

    • We did not. But we can do paper comparisons, although it was such a long time ago and under an entirely different structure that I see little point. This is new Denon DJ and I feel should be treated in isolation.

      • Still, would be nice to mention if they lost some features in this generation. Matrix input switches, led lightning around the EQ knobs (that would work even better now regarding the cue button colour matching the platter colour on the Prime setup), user defineable EQ crossover points for channel and mix EQ’s, midi controls,….and a lot of other stuff hidden inside the utility menu.
        That were all the stuff that we loved about the “old” Denon, we should know did they simply added to the existing mix or did they change the insides.

  6. The overarching question I’m wondering is how they compare to high end controllers and a laptop. Obviously they’re better than Pioneer CDJs.

  7. I see all the boxes say they’re configured for U.S. power. The images online (including yours) show them as being universal. If they are, why are those config tick boxes even there?

    Also, the mystery of the wi-fi and Bluetooth spec listed for the SC5000 on the FCC web site remains.

  11. the new engine software must be scrutinized in über detail. The previous gen of denon gear failed to ever reach its max potential b/c earlier engine version was so catstrophically awful.

        • I thought your question was if you could sync the players.
          The answer is: Yes.
          You don’t have to plug them into the mixer, just connect them directly.

          I’m pretty sure the effects on the NXS2 won’t be synced to the Denons, though.

          • Great thanks. I think the NXS2 has fairly accurate beat detection to calculate correct BPMs.

            But what if you linked 2 Denon SC5000 directly to each other and were using the dual layer function on each, would the pitch fader on the master deck adjust the tempo of all 4 decks?

              • Sure if you buy the complete Denon Prime series: 2 SC5000 & 1 x1800 mixer, then it will work but what if you want to use a Pioneer NXS2 Mixer. Will all 4 decks sync and be controlled by 1 pitch fader if you linked 2 SC5000 together using a Pioneer NX2 Mixer?

                I think Mark Settle can clear that up for us soon. TIA

                • FFS, we are trying to tell you that it doesn’t matter what mixer you use with SC5000 players in regards to your question (sync between players/master tempo).
                  You cannot link 2x SC5000 USING just the 900NXS because it doesn’t have a LAN hub on the back. It does have a single LAN port so tehnically you can plug it into the LAN hub and then plug both SC5000 into the same hub (useless since both Denon and Pioneer use different protocols for network comunication so the mixer cannot recieve info from players).

                • Oscar, you seem to be under the impression the mixer in any of these setups has anything to do with syncing. It does not. As others have said, you plug one end of the LAN cable into one SC5000 and the other end into the other SC5000 and voila! You now have four fully linked layers to play with. No hub or switch or anything else required.

                  • Thank you to all that have responded and I haven’t responded since I’m at work. Anyway the answer that was provided is what I wanted to hear since I would like to get 2 SC5000.

  13. On the SC5000 I see you can store both cue points and loops. Do you get 8 stored cue points and 8 stored loops or is it like Traktor where you get 8 points total?

  14. I want to know how the feel of the hardware compares with the Pioneer Nexus line. I am not the biggest fan of the Cue/Play buttons Pioneer uses as they can only take so much abuse before they wear out. Also I am curious as to how the jog wheel feels and responds to inputs comparably.

    • I would suggest giving them a feel for your self at your local dealer :) They feel great and are robust having been day to day abuse and road tested by a number of top artists plus our own tests.

  15. selectah! Really looking forward to this review!

    As someone who owns a hire business and who wants to switch to Denon gear for reasons of cost and LAYERS I am most concerned about the reaction of customers when they don’t get something they’re expecting. Good/bad news, most DJs I work with don’t use any software, they tend to run standalone USB/SD cards.

    So for me the most important thing is “what happens when you throw a non-techie Pioneer fanboi into the booth COLD armed with nothing but their USBs and tell them to play a live set?”.

    1). What happens if you just walk in with the USB you were using on your Pioneer gear and try to play – i assume this will work great for those who just dumps WAVs/mp3s onto a FAT/HFS volume

    2). Same question but where it’s been exported by Rekordbox (ie: can you find your tracks, etc)

    3). How well will do they work with strange volumes/filesystems eg: NTFS, GUID, MBR, etc – esp Mac created volumes?

    4). Playlist management, tagging, beatgrid management ON THE DEVICE (something 2KNXS do an “okay” job of)

    5). The split cueing on the Pioneer’s has always been a disaster IMHO (frankly the Master Out level indicators are also totally useless in just about every setting I’ve encountered) – would love to know if it’s A&H style (yay) or Pioneer style (boo) <- hopefully that last one makes sense

    6). Does a “hybrid” solution compromise the workflow and aesthetics eg: Pioneer or A&H mixer with Denon CDJs?

    The last one is only semi important – the Pioneer gear is always nicely proportioned and integrates well together in the booth – the minute you mix and match other components it all starts to go to custard eg: fader starts require additional cables, all the work surfaces are at different heights, etc

    • Hey Paul, if you’re going in with music in any supported file format, not previously scanned by Engine Prime – the SC5000’s will analyse the audio on the fly. Analysis is super quick and the track is able to be played in a matter of seconds; as data such as BPM, key, beatgrid and waveform display is defined and assigned. BTW, we hope to have some advanced stock of SC5000 and X1800 in the country in the next 7-10 days.

    • 1.) Music is sorted by filename, when you load a song you can play it immediately and it takes 15-20sec (cca 6min track) for the player to analyze BPM, key, beatgrid and waveform display and that info is saved on the USB and can be imported back into Engine after the gig. That info stays on the Engine folder on the USB.
      2.) Same as under 1.
      3.) FAT and exFAT are recommended, HFS+ and NTFS are read-only. Others probably don’t work.
      4.) You cannot make playlists on the device but you get a Prepare temporary list to put selected tracks when you come across them (only if the media is created/analyzed with Engine Prime)
      6.) Same as a A&H mixer + Pioneer CDJ’s combo. Upside is: Denon X1800 has digital inputs for CDJ’s, superior manual bpm input options and you can use it’s LAN hub to connect 3 or 4 CDJ’s (but it won’t have any effect on the mixer)

      And take my unsolicited advice (coming from a hobby user): if you’re paying your bills by doing DJ gear rentals keeping up with DJ technology is part of the business. All of this info is out there for some time know and it’s something you should already know.

  16. I downloaded and played with Engine Prime yesterday. What a fucking joke. The software is not bad, mind you. But the only reason inMusic abandoned the Engine 1.5 is because it was made by a non-inMusic owned software company. And yes, you guessed it right – they developed Engine Prime under the inMusic umbrella (Air Music Tehnology) and started from scratch just so they can save money. And then left out the MCX8000 support from it. Really????

    If they were willing to continue with Engine 1.5 we would now have all of the existing features (support for legacy players and mcx8000 including link) + Engine Prime features.

      • Save your copy-paste corporate response for somebody who cares Simon. Lack of MCX8000 support from 1.0 version shows that you didn’t intended to support it ever! Only the user backlash forced you to do it.

            • That’s a question we should ask you. Is your intent to deter DJs from this product? What did Denon DJ do to you that you are so passionate to write so LOUDLY in this quiet Q&A? And I’m a just a DJ, but you are the loudest one in the room, and usually the loudest guy in the room knows something. So what’s your connection to all of this?

              • You didn’t answer my question (quite telling btw) yet you think you can jump into a conversation and ask me whatever. So I’ll ask one more time: Do you work for or have any relations with inMusic?

                My intent now is to inform other DJ’s how Denon does business and what they can expect if they purchase any Denon gear. I was just the guy who intended to use Engine Prime with current Denon setup, update my workflow to Prime and then get Prime gear. That is now out the window. I’ve been a Denon user for 8 years and I’ve even participated in some presentations for Denon gear for other DJ’s, that how of a big supporter I was. And I’m done with Denon.

                • Thanks for stating your intent. My relations is I buy the gear and DJ. And I buy the speakers too if you wanna get technical. However my intent to jump into this conversation was to lighten the up mood. Sheesh….You have a lot of knowledge on what you know, however DJs will have to try out the new Prime software and make their own decision at the end of the day. All I wanna know about the SC5000 is can you do instant double like in Serato.

            • Enough with the insults.

              We’ve worked hard to create an environment where the industry will come and visit, and directly interact with the community. We need their engagement to continue to deliver DJWORX, but what we don’t need and won’t stand for is the community dishing out insults. If you can’t say it calmly and constructively, then don’t say it at all, because I sure as hell would switch off if someone came at me like that.

              Engage — don’t enrage. That’s a t-shirt and bumper sticker right there. :)

              As to your point, and looking at it from a cold hard business perspective — why support old units that will no longer generate revenue for the new owners? Yes I know — something something good PR blah blah blah… but it doesn’t sell units, and does nothing but cost money, both in development and increased support.

              Sometimes, you have draw a line in the sand, push forward, and not look back to make a better future.

              • Fair enough Mark. I apologize, Simon, I was out of line there. Just shows how bland corporate responses can enrage ordinary users like me.

                We have less problems with cold hard business decisions that are clearly communicated that with endless stalling and corporate “read-between-the-lines” stuff.
                This wouldn’t be such a issue if the Denon brand didn’t have a reputation for doing this kind of thing (this will be the third software with Denon name that is discontinued). Do inMusic bosses think a S3700 user that switched to SC3900 will upgrade further to any of the Prime hardware after he’s been forced to re-do his entire collection two times already?

                You cannot make a line in the sand and walk away every time you don’t like what you did in the past.

                This is already costing them. I waited to see what will be of this Prime software/hardware and calculated to buy 1x SC5000 in a couple of months, regardless of the success with clubs/festivals.
                But now I won’t because this just shows that, everytime Denon brand switches owners, existing users are cut off for the sake of better future. That of inMusic.

                • Sadly Denon has changed hands too many times in the last decade to get a level of consistency across their range and brand. Hopefully now that it’s under the inMusic brand umbrella, we should see a solid foundation being formed. They’re just in an unfortunately messy period as they transition the old out and build the new. And there will be unhappy people out there about things that happen. I don’t include the MCX8000 in the old because that was released on their watch. That does need addressing and apparently will be.

                  • It certainly is challenging as some of the products which totally understandably users feel strongly about where actually discontinued before we took over. This information however is not always very helpful to users. We can get a bad name as the new owner of brands but we do our best to try to ease these transitions although it may not always be possible. Rest assured the MCX8000 wont be forgotten. The SC5000 uses a new architecture which makes it very easy to update and we have an ongoing road map of improvements new features etc planned. Older firmware based units such as the earlier SC’s require allot of specialist development for even minor tweaking.

                    • I want to ask you this. I have a feeling I know how you’re going to answer however I want to ask anyway. Is there any possible thought or plan into a lesser featured version of the SC5000’s and a two channel version of the X1800 with a booth output? Also are you eyeing other areas to compete with Pioneer in? I am sure I can answer that last one myself lol.

                    • Let’s just say a we have an exciting roadmap for this series including our first major free software update both in the desktop and hardware. These where’s designed with ease of updates in mind :-)

                      Prime is on the rise!

              • “why support old units that will no longer generate revenue for the new owners? ”
                well, let’s see, why indeed? hmmm? it would lessen the concerns of customers that the word “old” was being rapidly changed and moving ever closer to being defined as “ok, we got that sucker’s money and he’s crossed the threshhold of the door, so the thing he just bought is old now”
                also, it could demonstrate technical knowhow and prove that the company employs the best engineers and programmers available; indicating TRUE value(as opposed to supposed value through comparative cost) in upcoming products.

                The long and the short of this is we are all foolishly supporting people for whom “make a better future” is a selfish endeavor.
                What, exactly, do the owners of these units do with them in two years, when this whole “Prime” experiment (dumb name, will fail) has gone bust, and Numark decides to draw another line in the sand and move forward again?

          • I respect and appreciate you being a representative of Denon and InMusic for your participation in this discussion. I want to thank you very much for your feedback. I understand you’re being as informative as you can be without revealing too much too soon due to new products in development.

      • Approximately when will the MCX8000 update be available? Fall/winter 2017, Spring/summer 2018, or when?

        Also, will the “all new code base” be use for the MCX8000?

  18. – How do the units handle instant doubles… like a CDJ where only the copies or more like Serato where cue’s, loop’s, ect. are intact?

    – Can you activate loops while triggering cue points or is it either or and not both?… and when changing the loop size does it continuously play without interruption like in Serato or does it abruptly start over like on CDJ’s?

    – Are there onscreen function’s like cue’s, loops, rolls, or slicer functions that can be used simultaneously with whatever function is selected on the physical pad’s?

    – Can the players read or translate efforts done in Serato, rekordbox, Traktor, ect. on the fly?

    – Will there be a motorized counterpart of the sc5000’s announced later this summer or sometime in the upcomming future?

    • Absolutely you can do this with the Engine Prime, batch analysis is also being looked at at future update for the on-board os. Analyzing doesn’t lock the track out its pretty instant on loading. Our system goes way beyond just saving the usual information however your USB Stick or SD card can become your record of all your favorite settings so you can rock up to any SC5000 in the world and feel right at home. Including your color tweaks, logos etc.

  20. I think one of the most important questions to ask in regards to the SC5000 is the media formats it supports. What type of partitions does it support, how big of a partition does it support, and does it support SDXC cards?

    • Hope this helps :)

      Supported Media:
      SD/SDHC/SDXC cards
      USB mass-storage devices (flash memory,external HDD enclosures)
      File Systems:
      exFAT (recommended)
      FAT32
      HFS+ (read-only)
      NTFS (read-only

      Limit depends on format of drive chosen, but you can handle very large drives in EX Fat.

      File Formats:
      AAC/M4A
      AIF/AIFF (44.1-192 kHz, 16-32-bit)
      ALAC
      FLAC
      MP3 (32-320 kbps, VBR)
      MP4
      Ogg Vorbis
      WAV (44.1-192 kHz, 16-32-bit)

  21. One of the funniest/saddest things these couple of days is seeing posts of confused mcx8000 & sc2900/3900 owners on social media and forums complaining that engine prime analyzed usb sticks won’t work or they cannot find how to link their player to the software….

    • How about a cheap inexpensive single deck controller that you plug in one of the back USB ports to control the second layer of the deck? Same as SP1 controls NXS2? Google Denon SC-2000 ;)
      But of course, it’s pre-inMusic hardware so they have no intention of supporting it…. (cue one of inMusic’s staff commenting here that it would be better for Denon to focus on making Engine Prime better :D )

    • Instant reading of Rekordbox cues and loops, ability to hide BPM counter and moving waveform, and track offloading from Engine Prime over ethernet are my requirements prior to me buying these. Ability to lock key away from zero would also be nice.

  25. Why can’t pioneer and denon just play nice together, where both players work with either platforms rekordbox or engine, I use cdjs ( mainly because of rekordbox) but denon do look like really nice players

  26. Now, now darlin… as @DJWORX:disqus pointed out, no insults. And hope you buy it, I really do. Then I would probably see your posts on the internet in a few years :D :D :D

  28. Out of everything, I’d miss my laptop the most. There’s no way to possibly recreate the music management capabilities available to users of any of the current mature DJ programs, like Traktor and Virtual DJ, with tiny mediaplayer screens and usb cards.

    • Actually you could use laptop’s with CDJ’s the same way you would use USB thumb drives or SD card with the advantage of seeing your library on a larger screen along with all the tagging, sorting, and matching benefit’s available in rekordbox’s offline library management software.

      • True, and I’ve done it before but in the end, why go through all that trouble and expense when you can just use two relatively inexpensive single deck controllers along with a mixer and soundcard? These unites are massive expensive considering what little they offer compared to even a decent controller. Heck, I’d rather bash out a set on 2 basic Stanton turntables at a fraction of the cost. My first controller used usb cards and and a tiny build-in screen and I hated ever aspect of it.

        • Very true.. controllers with turntables are cheaper but the stability and lag are the two main things that push me away from DJing software on laptop’s. I also feel more disconnected or maybe more distracted when a laptop is involved. If Denon releases the motorized sibling of the SC5000.. no more laptop for me.

          • I used a Windows laptop for 2 years before switching to a Mac. There was always a slight lag on my Windows machine, no matter how many tweaks I made to it. I got the lag down to next to nothing. When I switched to a Mac, that next to nothing lag was gone altogether.

  29. Basically what is going to happen with Engine Prime since I believe its the best DJ music management tool especially for manual beatgridding and loops. Some DJs will download the free version of Engine Prime, then map all their MP3s and possibly loops in Prime, then export them to Serato, Traktor, or Rekordbox using Rekord Buddy (once its updated).

    For that reason, I believe Engine Prime should be a performance software like Rekordbox with limited options available for non-Denon gear. This way Denon can charge for the software and provide 2 software licenses per purchase as Rekordbox did.

    • That announcement was a double edged sword. Yay for updates, but it means a small delay as we have to check over what has changed and how that impacts.

      Just so you know, we’re planning Prime Week, with reviews for Engine, VL12, X1800, and SC5000 running Monday – Thursday, finishing off with a couple of opinion pieces, and an MC7000 giveaway. Probably going to delay that until 16th October now.

      Sorry for the delay. Real life cares not for publishing schedules.

        • If the atmosphere at BPM was anything to go by, quite the contrary. And they’ve seen the full thrust of my negativity in one of the reviews too. It’s hard to be angry when they really know that what I’ve written is true. You’ll see what I mean soon enough.

          Now aiming for 6th November. It’s all I’m working on now for the next week or so. I really need this to be out.

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