It used to be, all you needed was two music sources and way to control their volumes, and you could be a DJ. Later, a couple of turntables, and a mixer with volume faders and a crossfader was enough. These days, we tend to expect four channels, filters, EQs, cue-banks, loops, jogwheels. The list goes on. Here’s the question:
What is the absolute minimum set of features needed on an all-in-one DJ controller?
Two channels?
Jogwheels?
Channel faders?
Crossfader?
It’s easy to cry out that X, Y, or Z has to be there or you’ll literally die, but when you strip it all down to the bare metal, what do you think is needed for a minimum viable product?
Personally, I think the pinnacle of a minimalist controller would be either the Novation Twitch, or even the Akai AMX. In fact, I’d argue you could dump the crossfader and cue banks on the Twitch and still have a very powerful bit of kit. I happily play out with just a Z1 and X1 (and mixer), but even that has superfluous controls like effects, hot cues and filters.
Your turn
What controls do you think the most stripped down all-in-one controller would have on it?
Volume faders, hi/mid/lo/gain rotaries. Something to nudge tracks (jog/strip). Master volume. Play/Pause button.
I think the blurred line between djing, producing and live gigging makes difficult to “craft” a minimun specs calling it “dj controller”. Some people could perform with launchpad/push, others will need jogs or even turntables…
What means “djing” nowadays?
To mix two songs a simple cmd micro could do the job. Even Serato Pyro…
To mash or remix there are more than one workflow…
To scratch I will say “NS7 family” (as controllers) since die hards use motorized platters in the worst scenario (when not directly turntables alone)
So what’s the question Dan? This topic could become a flame war easily…
Here’s my interpretation. DJing for me is mixing one track to another, so I need two wheels with play/pause buttons.
I’ll also need a way to mix, so a crossfader is essential. This lets me blend, but to beat match, I’ll need pitch controls.
But not all music is created equally, so I’ll also need EQs, ideally three band with gain. And for complete control, I’ll need channel faders too.
To properly check the levels, LED meters would be good, but they don’t have to be big — just a couple of greens plus an amber and a single red.
Control over the master volume is necessary too.
For mixing, I’ll need a headphone port, with cues on each channel. For output, RCA is enough at this level, but balanced XLR is best. Booth isn’t needed from an essentials basis.
I think this gives me the essentials for me to be able to mix tracks effectively, and have control over the audio too. I don’t need cues, effects, samples, or filters — those are the next step up once I can efficiently mix tracks on beat.
Looking forward to hearing how this compares to other people’s ideas of basic essentials. :)
The only thing I’d add to this is a single cue button on each deck in addition to play/pause.
You need 2 wheels? So no NI S5 for you?
There are S8s in the team. And while I do like the idea and workflow of the S5 and S8, I prefer something to lay my hands on. My favourite controller is the NS7III. Actually, it’s probably the original NS7 because it’s only two channels.
So NI doesn’t have a controller that you prefer? You are far from being alone.
Mark uses Serato, for a start.
This does rather dictate my choice of controller. But it is a huge choice.
I would use Serato too. But I’ve move past 1920 X 1080 resolution. Serato doesn’t scale on my Lenovo Laptop. Super tiny unusable fonts. My laptop is three years old and Serato still haven’t addressed it. Same reason why I left Traktor. Strangely enough VDJ8 scales just fine.
I think the latest Serato beta fixes this.
Hope so. I’ve read about plenty of folks that moved to VDJ for that very reason. Retina display MacBooks also had the same problem. Not sure if the they fixed the mac, but Serato is unusable on high resolution display windows machines. Do these people not have any new laptops in their offices?
I think font size and display can be adjusted.
Not enough
+1 on the NS7III. I own that unit.
That’s my basic idea of DJing as well but my requirement of beatmatching is dependent on what is available.. If I don’t have turntables or CDJs available.. There really isn’t a lot of incentive for me to “beatmatch”. Nobody is going to be impressed by it except for other DJs these days and if I don’t have turntables there.. there isn’t much to look at beatmatching wise.. I do however absolutely need gains, EQ, and monitor LEDS.
Hard to say, a lot of brands have fallen of their trees trying to answer that question.
Personally a DDJ SR is the bare minimal I could live with. Anything with less features will make me feel I miss something.
– Twitch didn’t have a huge success (a little less than 5000 units if i remember well).
– NI though they would collapse the DJ scene with their ‘no wheels’ controlers.
– Stanton SCS3 line up was a nice try, but it didn’t change the face of the DJ world.
– Pacemaker was also on the ‘light is right’ trend.
and so on, I could go all night like this…
Yes I could mix with any of these, but not my taste. It’s like cars, when you have a taste for some gadgeteries you don’t want to come back, it feels like regression.
The most stripped down controller (that a manufacturer would actually release) will have:
2 ch faders.
6 EQ knobs.
2 Gain encoders.
2 Fileter knobs.
CUE/MIX balance and Headphone volume knobs.
Headphone out and Master out.
iOS device connectivity.
DC input.
All other features will be controlled via the iOS device.
So… AMX/Z1?
In my view, the most stripped down controller should be coupled with a stripped down computer, i.e., an iOS device; so, the playback and browsing controls on the AMX seem a bit excessive (the software should adapt to a stripped down controller – like TRAKTOR DJ). The Z1 is closer, yet I’m disappointed that the gain controller is an absolute knob instead of an encoder. A minority preference of mine, but I don’t need cross faders in either.
I guess a Z1 with encoder gains and no cross fader with an iOS device stand would be what I’m imagining.
Perhaps besides the point, but among all the all in ones I’ve played with, the one that I felt the most joy in controlling it was this pretty stripped down old controller from Vestax. All other controllers don’t quite give me the satisfaction I get from when I’m playing with a club mixer – though my main set up is an APC-40 MkII.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/VCM100
That VCM-100 is awesome! I bought it for my semester abroad to have some portable DJ fun, sold it when back home and instantly regretted it. So I bought it again and still have it. Combined with an X1 it’s almost everything I would ever need.
That looks like a fine controller. I have a TR-1 with a good traktor mapping that I need to modify.
Hey Jose. Something about the VCM100 makes it feel like a DJ equipment rather than a controller. They were using the same parts as their high end mixers – maybe it was that.
By the way, I’m the author of the best selling TRAKTOR book in Japan. Shoot me an email if you have a specific question about your mapping and I’ll see if I can help you out. pumpupthedj@gmail.com
I have to be honest, I rarely use hot cues or FX or slicer or rolls. I use a few saved loops (usually only one per track), and I’m perfectly happy to do looping on Serato using the keyboard shortcut. Most of the the deck features on controllers are un-necessary for me. I was happy with turntables, I really don’t need much else besides the mixer section. BTW, I have used my Akai AMX sometimes without any DVS (CDJs or Turntables), so it is possible to mix fine without jog wheels in a pinch.
However, I would love to have a little single jog wheel controller to go with it having just minimal controls – a jog/scratch wheel and only 4 buttons (play, cue, and 2 extra buttons for hot cue or looping. Then I could show up to a gig with just one turntable and still be able to control both decks. I would also love to use a pair of these single deck controllers with my Rane MP2015.
In before AIRHORN BUTTON.
Typical. Going for the obvious.
I did not see that button on the new Gemini hardware, though.
Back to the drawing board, I’d say ;)
Damn you just figured out our next round of updates
No controls, just a sync button!
…….. As for me, I want everything I’ve got. I use cue points, I lay effects on the submissive track before fade over. I like having the screens on the D2’s and everything that goes with it.
If I want to do minimal, I’ll spin vinyl ;)
My bare essential controller:
* 2 jog wheels (for pitch bending and scrubbing/searching through a track). I do make but a poor scratcher.
* cue & play/pause buttons
* 100mm pitch faders
* 2 channel faders (including gain, high, mid and low knobs)
* cue section (to monitor between the pfl and master)
* master gain knob
*outputs (headphone and master out)
Bare minimum ‘bells and whistles’ would be 2 cue point buttons per channel and maybe 4 sampler buttons (for one shot samples like the dreaded air horn or namend drop).
Jog wheels. You listening NI?
Jesus dude. You’re still harping on this? Get something with stupid jogs and move on with your life. Damn
The question was “Let’s argue: What are the essential DJ controller features?”. Am I not allowed to answer? or Argue? Get over yourself. And I have 3 controllers with Jog wheels thank you.
Honestly, for my personal use, what I need (not necessarily what I want) is a go button, a platter, and a 2 channel mixer with 3 band EQ and either 60mm channel faders or a couple of nice rotary pots. No crossfader, booth out, cue points, looping, etc. necessary. Right above that, the next feature I would want is a knob to manipulate key on each track. My go-to setup for a long time as a plain vanilla turntable DVS setup with a Behringer Nano to control deck key.
Hmmm. Rotary controller…
I’ve tried for YEARS.
The Z2. Ok, that was exhausting.. see ya.
So if someone handed you just a Z2, USB cable, power cable, and speakers, you’d be happy with that?
Who’s handing who what? The Z2 is my minimum setup.. Played on it alone for months before I got anything else.
No transport controls? DVS?
Well, the topic is essential. I would like tables to be provided at gigs.. but tables aren’t a “controller” in the strictest sense.. They do control but in a traditional sense they are at their most basic.. players.. and I don’t know what you mean about “DVS?” It’s NI’s scratch mixer so it is an option.. and it does have transport… by pressing the green buttons while you are still holding down your cue. As a bare minimum controller my Z2 has served me phenomenally.
The rules are simple: What is the absolute minimum viable for a DJ controller. If someone handed you JUST a Z2 to connect to your laptop, would you consider that the minimum to DJ?
yes.
You could even leave a lot of the features and would still be able to mix on it.
yep.. I actually have a hard time trying to get my X1 Mk2 into my workflow..
It’s good for FX and maybe transport control. Besides that, it’s kind of redundant…
I mostly use it so I don’t wear out the clicky buttons on my Z2.
How do you control pitch?
If I don’t have turntables or CDJs connected can you think of any reason why I would need to or people would even care or know what was up? How do I control pitch? Well.. if I have turntables or CDJs hooked up I use those.. If I don’t have anything like that it’s irrelevant.. I keep my tracks well gridded and use sync.
Did the same in a pinch, when I had my old Z2.
a ‘play’ button might be handy – the Z2 is a mixer with some MIDI, not a controller, isn’t it?
It has two cue banks and a.. green button that lets you engage the “playhead”. It’s a controller..
Fader / 3-band eq / gain / filter for 2 channels.
Play, cue, sync buttons, loop encoder, track browse encoder and something to nudge the track (strip/jog).
Could be an updated version of the awesome VCM-100. Ultra-portable, great fun!
Actually, the Numark PartyMix looks like it could be fun (if it worked with my music already being organized for Serato).
I wish it had 3 band EQs and a filter knob though.
https://www.numark.com/product/party-mix
I’m pretty happy with my Akai AMX though.
Play/Cue, volume + eq, nudge + tempo control, and a goddamn loop encoder.
Case closed.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5cdf7669e488fb6af78ea4ed0e11340339406b231f0be2ad6888581e374af377.jpg
Yep – it’s helped me out of some jams!
Two different & independent headphones output, with its own prelisten (cue) control, etc…
Besides the usual low, mid, and highs definitely a filter.
anybody remember the EKS Otus? I always thought that was such a great design as it could just sit on top of a technics in a club and it had all the basic controlls you could need. too bad it didn’t really grab the market. they weren’t even th https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/927ff647865eae6387ce74325b520453c14662ac5dc36d37352580ac5e1c19b9.jpg at expensive
It’s just a player though, isn’t it? Not an all-in-one unit?
the plus was more of a player and you needed two of them to make it work nicely in a setup (plus the pitch controller wasn’t the best) but their last effort was the otus raw which featured dual decks with separate outputs and two long pitch faders, and one of the cool functions was the jog wheel lights which were different for each deck and they were both running at the same time so you could use them as a phase meter (similar to the cdj 2000 grid meter) and this would help to align your two decks keeping them in sync (or have an extra bit of help if you were a beginner and didn’t want to keep your eyes on the computer screen. it had 4 rca outs and 2 spdif outs + headphones out so it was an all-in-one controller.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1ce04ba98f9dd88334a9112e3d55b685711173335569c64d35b57b300f9d5026.jpg
Pitch was not nice, wheel was not precise, buttons was clicky like cheap. None of the 2 versions felt like a finished product.
that’s all true. i did mention it failed as a product. but the topic was features and design and to me, nothing beats the approach the otus had. personally i’m guilty of supporting lots of products that ended up failing (the most expensive being a wacom nextbeat i have gathering dust) but i really like the overall design for their time.
I remember Wacom chose a german DJ as a testimonial – he was very well known in the scene of being a total fake. He faked his biography, had a list of fake remixes and claimed them as official, fake gigs, fake residencies and so on. I think their decision making in product design was similar to their decision making in choosing some of their testimonials – just not too good.
who do you mean? i only remember chuckie doing some demos and rlp. when it came out it was kinda the only stand-alone option and there were some cool features to it like the sampler. later on i ended up using it only for triggering vocal samples i would chop on the fly. long time ago anyway.
David Puentez. Check his website. This guy is so ludicrous.
That makes me really sad to hear but it is helpful testimony.. It’s really sad that this is one of the few things that has lots of innovative inputs that DJ’s might need.
I like Mark’s basic description. The Korg Kaoss comes close but misses the LED and proper jogs. If the numark mixtrack edge is upgraded with proper jogs and a better shift layer mapping, it could be it. I own one now and its a good serato dj controller for practice or in an impromptu pinch, but needs the upgrade to meet Mark’s list.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8a9995f14407c2ebf3e039f1e324da16b2d42d7077bc81ebbc5bfeea5a0e9927.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/531270ccea9ce2a4ec012862260517b5e53307ef363dba69ba30c587941e5ae6.jpg
For me, essentials: 2-channels. Jog wheels. Transport controls. Gain. 3-band EQ. Line Faders. Crossfader. Pitch faders. Master volume. Audio out.
Crossfader, volume faders, jog wheels, play/pause, master cue, eqs and… sync.
Ah. The bare minimum…
1. Colour coded states (loop/cue/samples) – so I can know what pressing a button will do at a glance
2. Jogwheels. Much more tactile for moving through a track to find the ideal spot for a loop in or out
3. Filter knob with press-to-reset functionality
4. Full-kill 3-band equalisers with press-to-reset functionality
5. At least two tracks
6. A full 8 pads per deck, since this seems to be the industry standard
7. While we’re there, four filter buttons and matching knobs
8. Separate cue and main outputs (the main should be unbalanced twin RCA)
9. Microphone that goes through the onboard soundcard (NOT passthrough)
10. Clickwheel for scrolling through tracks
11. I’ll stop there, I just made a Rambling Syd Rumpo reference
2 Channels
Jogwheels
DVS-Compatibility
High-Res VU-Meters
3-Band EQ
Effects Control
Long Channel and Pitch Faders
2x 8 RGB Pads
Build & Sound Quality
*no particular order
Internal mp3 player, I wouldn’t want to DJ with just a DDJ controller incase of PC failure. Just last week power supply for laptop just died. Recently bought XDJ-R1
Z1 & X1 gives me 100% of what I need and pretty much no obsolete buttons / functions. For me: The perfect controller!
Same here. Now, if only I could get that F1 step sequencer mapping to work…
Not just me that thinks the F1 sequencer mapping is garbage then!
Ugh. I really wish it was better.
Get a Maschine Mikro and sync it to Traktor with Ableton Link. Works great, possibilities are almost endless and it’s relatively cheap.
I’ve got better than that… https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipM_PBYiMWb3QpwmNusLbwLW_OIto9UiQ1u6wO0MTxJEwTCUIYKd1RBuKm7gBzrtgw/photo/AF1QipNjgOXmn_yv5_Y2Ligk54-jXYXWRRbM3b5gMaCk?key=RGFYYzZFRUFxVWZPMXRxQnVMdVYtVTdhTWc0dURR
I’ve got better than that… https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/95c6df98e0d8b26dcef770d206ca0094b123cf8bc3e33801f8ff3f26ac2f382a.jpg
I didn’t even get that far with it. The sequencer straight up sucks. I tried sequencing a kick and the initial hit was late by a 16th at the start of every loop. Try skipping the hit on the one? The two is then affected. Didn’t go so far as to try the other features and workings if this fundamental thing that makes a sequencer a sequencer work.
I only wanted to use is as the aux channel my Maschine comes back into my Xone:92 on can’t route through the filters. I’ll eventually get round to just creating another remix deck of loops rather than samples.
Weird. Did you have sync enabled?
What deck have you got it mapped to? I was on deck D, so I’m going to try deck C and hope it’s better.
So, turns out it’s the deck D mapping that’s broken (eg can’t scroll through your sounds intermittently). Deck C mapping works perfectly.
1 motorised platter in the center of device with deck select buttons
on each side, a separate section of mixer and deck controls
a-crossfader (that’s a total of two)(crossfader take-over of deck would be great)
b-eqs and kils; both a linear and rotary volume for that deck, with a selector
c-filters and resets
d-loop controls; in/out & release, auto, length change lever
e-play buttons for corresponding deck
f-pitchfader ” ” “
I’m reading a lot of controller wet dreams here rather than focussing in on what is the very minimum feature set that should be on every controller.
There have been times where i’ve needed to get through 30 minutes of a set with keyboard and trackpad in traktor – I don’t think that’s a dream for anyone!
true that, me too! (some of my best gigs were improv’s like that) can’t get much more minimum than nothing!
Using all the stuff controllers offer these days it pretty much is a minimum today. Like the 2x 8 pads on almost every single controller. Living without them? Impossible today – even for simple 2-deck-mixing.
Are you saying you can’t DJ without having cue pads?
You can definitely DJ still but those pads on my SX2 are unreal, the amount of things you can do with them.
That’s not what we’re talking about here, though. If you can do without, they go in the bin…
Yeah chuck em in bin then:) as long as you have a loop in/out and normal cue button, they are absolute must haves for me (for beat matching disco tracks together mainly)
Two channels? 4 is better… but if need to be small two is fine…
Jogwheels? yes, Offends the question
Channel faders? off course…
Crossfader? YES
A bit of “FADERFOX” QUALITY BUTTONS… And 4-5 buttons that are natural “shift”, that is to say send different messages from the controller to the software natively.
Oooh. Faderfox DJ4.
My bare essentials would have to be:
Cross fader
Up faders
Headphone cue section
EQs
Cue buttons
DVS/Jogwheels
I prefer using Turntables though.
Anything else would be a bonus.
Two play buttons, two cue buttons, a cross fader.
Pretty much what this guys said. It’s minimal yet functional. It’s also back to the basics for me when mixing was fun and quite literally everything all about the mixing.
If we’re talking minimums, I believe that the NI X1+Z1 for the Traktor Pro world and the Akai Pro AMX for Serato DJ would be the most minimum setups out there for controllers. Both give DJs the absolute minimum.
External support. If the S5 had external audio inputs, it would be the ultimate controller. Jog wheels are 50/50, some people use em some don’t. I like them for searching, but I DO NOT think they need to be as big – the size on the old DENON D9000 was adequate those would be fine. But the more you add the bigger these things are.
Minimum? The Gemini FirstMix (http://geminisound.com/product/firstmix) without the FX knobs (I don’t use them much,) browse controls (keyboard & touchpad is faster anyway,) scratch, rev and sync buttons (so the wheels function as nudge/jog only) or even deck select buttons (two decks is all I need.) Not sure what the Preview button is for but I can probably do without that too. I would however need a way to toggle headphone cue from the controller like the FirstMix i/O has.
Numark DJ2GO. Very useful to have as a “just in case” spare in the DJ bag. In fact that could be stripped back even further. Lose the sync buttons and the navigation controls.
nope try the samson graphite 13 /// 13 pads 6 rotaries 1 crossfader / my
mapiing to vdj / cue / play / hot cue 1 . 2 . 3 / effect start / bass
treble and mid control / and crosfader / using eq mixing / bringing in
al the eq from cut makes for a smooth transition / no missing long
faders / button mashing on the hotcues / and you are r portable / play
out of the cars boot after gigs. the afterparty / have it running with
the pioneer 900 and retaion my work flow. best investment ever
Pioneer nearly nailed it with the XDJ-RX. Yes, it is expensive, but it is a lovely all-in-one piece of gear. Only thing I miss is the ability to beat jump. It has all the digital DJ needs for performing at a professional level.
Faders, EQs, Filters, play button, Cue points, FX section, needle search, Headphone Volume, Master Volume, level metres, monitor volume, balanced output, unbalanced output, built in sound card.
Platters and Pitch Faders are probably a must for me personally but you can definitely Dj without them with modern software.
My ideal controllers?
A 2-channel version of the Pioneer DJ DDJ-SX2 without the sampler fader in the middle or in other words:
A new version of the DDJ-SR but with jogwheel displays, DVS, RGB pads and full sized pitch faders.
or
A 2-channel version of the Denon DJ MC7000 but without the mirrored layout.
the most minimum setup i’ve played out on AND enjoyed (until I was reminded about just using a Traktor and a keyboard), would be an X1 mk I and a Z2. One of the best setups I’ve used provided you think well in advance about tempo changes and gradually move up/down using the buttons. The X1 mk II never quite hit the mark and I don’t really “get” the touch strip.
I recently got a pair of D2s which I thought would be my new “minimum” rider, and while they’re great, they are far from minimal.
How about the thing that usually gets overlooked by so many manufacturers? A decent mic channel. Not just a jack socket with a gain control next to it. Not shared with one of the line channels, effectively turning your 4-deck controller into a 3-deck controller. A proper mic channel, with gain and EQ of its own. Not every DJ out there is scratching and mixing all night – for some of us, picking up a mic is still very much part of the job!
Thing is, I’d argue that MCing isn’t part of the core role of a DJ. Yes, it tends to happen in open format and mobile, but, like scratching, it’s a ‘nice to have’ feature.
It was since djing has it’s roots in radiostations and jamaican counterpart soundsystems and Toasting (as little introductions like radiostations). The thing is… should djing recover some of these features or not? Is djing just mixing a>b?
At its core, DJing is playing music.
At it’s core, Djing is a social cultural party.
I’d have to disagree with the definitions of “DJ” given. Disc Jockey can cover a multitude of situations, ranging from radio (public, pirate, heck even hospital), to wedding, party, club, mobile, bedroom…to instantly discount these others is a little short-sighted. I’d say, club DJs seem to fit the general definition given that DJs “mix” music. Other DJ types are all still valid here though.
Agreed, there is talk radio. Any radio station/club I’ve spent time in has it’s own summing/console mixer for live to air studio/front of house, with dedicated mic channels and separate channels for a Dj’s kit. If it doesn’t, I pack my ZED10 FX… it gets the job done in a pinch. At the core, a disc jockey plays music.
Paid radio DJ’s are known for using nothing more than a queue in imusic.
Well now you’ve opened the can of worms…
I guess the most basic form of DJing is technically playing tracks in rapid succession (not sure if it has to be live though). Anything else you do is an enchancement on top of that. What you use, how you use it, and whatever else you do on top of that is still “extra.”
No one will have a shitty time if all you do is spin song after song of music your crowd of people likes.
2 channels, with 2 rotary’s
2 Play/pauze button
2 stop buttons
2 Pitch updown bend buttons
2 Pitch fader
Previous/next track select (hold to skip forward/backwards)
Just simply said a denon dn-2000f and 2 channel ‘mixer’ ( read: 2 volume knobs)
Maybe 2 gain knobs if you wanna be fancy.
Mic channel optional.
And yes actually this is more or less how I started my dj career with. Except that I had an old technics with pitch WHEEL (not a fader) loved that TT!
Just put what I described in a controller and you can dj actually. Back 2 basics.
I wonder… 2 volume knobs 2 gain knobs and a de on 2000f I’d love to see what you’ll come up with :-)
https://www.google.be/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djresource.eu%2Fimages%2Ftopics%2Fdenon%2Fdenon-dn-2000.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djresource.eu%2FDjsets%2Fdisplay%2F6258%2F&docid=y70itbPhTI4XZM&tbnid=ZSySk7jmDwhBUM%3A&vet=1&w=600&h=319&client=ms-android-samsung&bih=279&biw=640&q=Denon%20dn2000&ved=0ahUKEwiEva6Ko4TSAhUDC8AKHS9CBpEQMwgcKAAwAA&iact=mrc&uact=8
Pretty much the VCI-380, with DVS. Was sooooo close.
You think DVS is essential to the ability to DJ?
Nah. I basically didn’t read the article very well at all. But that would have made VCI almost perfect. In honesty I could have lost the touch strip and pressure sensitive pads. Swapped out for some loop controls and enabled DVS. The new mixars looks close to perfect but layout and aesthetics don’t sit well.
Right now I am back to dvs and the AMX (with some remapping) has close to perfect essential hardware controls and a solid x fader at obvious expense of jogs.
The vci 400 comes close but was missing the touch strips and led’s on the jogs. Also the DVS is not enabled in Serato but works in Traktor.
RD
I don’t, and I came up with Techno.
Still the best 2-channel controller.
Ears (with musicality trainning)
Taste (drived by knowledge).
Focus (and vision)
Empathy (heart passion)
Some tool to control music or almost to entertain crowd between silences.
These are the basic specs of any controller, the human rear them.
play/pause on a tape deck…OG DJ skills.
Im not a fan off a all in one controller.. imo its not mobile enough but the first thing i bought when i started was a behrinher bcd3000. Now its still mapped at home on ableton.
You don’t think a Novation Twitch is mobile enough? It’s the size of your laptop.
Maybe mobile isnt the good word. A dj controller can never give what a good venue already has.
I have a Konrrol S8 (which is a controller) and it certainly has more features than any good club has as their standard, so I’m not sure what you mean.
Indeed,but the s8 is the only controller I would take with me. All the rest doesnt fed up with club standard. The s4 isnt enough let stand a novation switch. And a s8 is big ass big, isnt suitable for small dj booths
When compared to 2 CDJs and a mixer, the Kontrol S8 is quite small… even with your laptop (usually over the controller on a laptop stand).
Yeah but 2 CDJs and a mixer are already at the dj booth.
You don’t have to bring it. I have been at small dj booths thinking: If someone is used dj’ing with a controller and he wants to bring it.. he’s fucked. Ok, sure, you can put your S8 on the equipment. 1, what does the owner think? He is not going to like that. 2, what if the next dj takes over? 3 How do you start after the dj before you?
Turntables usually have some wood cut-out that protects them in a DJ booth. If you’re playing in a DJ booth that doesn’t have space for a controller, that place probably isn’t bringing in enough people to make much needed updates.
I still love to play at places with 2, 8′ folding tables running lengthwise (in a line… boiler room style) because I love being that close to the people. If the DJ booth doesn’t have the space for me, I’ll carve it out of the dance floor, and run XLRs back into the house mixer/patch bay/amp etc.
If the next DJ wants to take over, they have their own 2 channels on my 12 channel (or the club) mixer. Leaving all the channels open on the mixer is a great way to back-and-forth with other DJs.
I never understood why someone would elect to rely on house gear… it’s like taking the bus to get to your show. At least you know what’s wrong with your gear, you won’t know what’s wrong with house gear until you get there and try it.
I’ve noticed a recent trend of locations having nothing but the amplified sound system, and XLRs to the DJ, meaning: If you want to play, you gotta’ bring your own gear.
Bring your own gear.. as in nothing? I found it hard to believe this is a trend in professional environments. So as a club/venue you are just f*cking vinyl dj’s in the ass, saying, hey dude, bring your own very expensive gear and drive it all across the country. IMO clubs are getting more dj-focused for there gear. They rent what the dj need. But that’s a bit off topic. The reasons I don’t use a controller are said and I don’t found any of your arguments satisfying. But everyone has his preferences… talking about it.. I’m going back to vinyl :D
I’m not stopping you. You go there and enjoy it. I’m going to keep on bringing my gear and setting up where I play. If there’s no space for me in the booth because it’s rigged for vinyl only, I’ll ask the others if they want to use the decks, if not, I’ll move the turntables, and set up there. More often than not, the night will be more than one DJ, and almost never someone with vinyl, so moving the decks and setting up where they were makes a lot of sense.
And right you are.. everyone has his/her style and the setup mostly compliments the style suited to the dj. One more thing.. vinyl is really coming back. These last couple of months I saw a bunch of digital djs playing vinyl again.
I have a Kontrol S8 (which is a controller) and it has way more features and options than any good venue has for their standard gear (CDs, turntables, etc.), so I don’t know what you mean.
“…when you strip it all down to the bare metal, what do you think is needed for a minimum viable product?”
I know I won’t make any friends with this and honestly wouldn’t use it in my own kit, but when I think about the leanest device to control software… the X Session Pro from M-Audio pops into mind.
You know.. funny thing.. I considered purchasing that many years ago off and on. It would probably have been an excellent purchase. I have my M-audio connectiv sitting about a foot and a half away from me and it’s still as sturdy and functional as the day I bought it.
I bought one and remapped it for Ableton when I bought Live 5, before I was able to order a UC33e. Connectiv was a great piece of hardware at the time, the price point was decent and Torq wasn’t too bad, if you spent the time to tweak it.
I bought it with and for use with Ms. Pinky and Deckadance.. Theoretically I might still eventually be able to use both of them for some sort of DVS fun.. who knows. If I do though I definitely have the timecode.. two pink, two 180gram black, and two splatter matter.
An old buddy of mine had a Connectiv, we were both Unix geeks. Ended up using it with BSD and Final Scratch, on Win we used both Torq and Ms. Pinky. You can also use it for Cross DJ.
Mid 2000s. Ah yes, them were the days.
To be honest, all I need is a soundcard enabled mixer like the Xone 23C and keyboard shortcuts to control the two decks.
I dont need a controller. Just a mixer with a screen to read my digital files, and work with a timecode.
I love my Novation Twitch, and still use it from time to time. I agree that it’s a great minimalist controller and it’s why I won’t go back to jog wheels, but your topic is about minimum necessary requirements so I’ll get on with that:
Transport controls seem really damn important, EQs are right there with channels strips, and so is the pitch control. Maybe one cue point (maybe with an option for looping). A sound card *should be standard* with a port for mains and headphones, and Gain/Volume control over mains and headphones probably are required, but that’s about it.
Hot cues are probably not, nor are effects (but I still love them). Jog Wheels take up too much space for what they do (I vote for touch strips anyway… geez I love my S8) and you can probably get away with a left-neutral-right toggle switch for scrubbing to the spot you want to start your track. Lights on the controller aren’t necessary, nor any other form of computer feedback.
I dub thee: TRAKTOR Kontrol XS. Z1/X1 size… https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6f9cb8b820edc8bad8b5ce5d1b8275f7051e00ed22a6cf32f1b993af1af43a9a.png
Nice, but still would like a Z4 ;)
Want.
Here are the minimalist features: 1. Must be able to load tracks onto at least two decks with independent gain control for address track volume differences. 2. Must be able to speed up and down said tracks (for beat-matching). 3. Must be able to adjust at 3 bands of EQ (hi, med, and low) and fade the entire track if desired. 4. Must be able to output BOTH headphones and a source of amplification. 5. Must be able to cue in headphones without hearing said cue via the source of amplification AND mix between the cue and main mix with both optional amounts of each and volume. 6. Must include a sound interface. Optional but desired: A. Loops B. Crossfader C. Effects D. Sync E. Advance playing modes (i.e. “Flux”/”Slip”) F. Advance cueing modes (i.e. “Vinyl”, “CDJ”) G. Hot Cues H. Waveform displays I. Filters on each channel J. Search via Ribbon K. Everything else
At the bare minimum, an all-in-one DJ controller needs, in my opinion:
– Jogwheels or touchstrips. You need to be able to cue up your track properly
– A pitch fader of decent size and resolution
– Play, pause and cue buttons
– Some control over effects (1 effect at the time is fine)
– A mixer with a 3 band EQ, line VU meters and master VU (OK i could do without the line VU meters but the master VU is essential)
– master gain at least
– navigation and load buttons to load and browse tracks
– RCA output
– Headphone input with volume and master/mix knob (essential)
– And obviously, a sound card.
I guess that’s it. No loops, no samples, no hot cues… Basically, a digitised vinyl/mixer setup :-)
Essential:
3 Channels, one is aux in.
Red CUE and green PLAY/PAUSE buttons (traditional colors).
LOOP IN, OUT, EXIT/RELOOP and LOOP CLR buttons.
Long throw pitch faders (for more exact beatmatching).
Pitch Bend buttons or touch strip.
Rotary channel faders (for longer, smoother blends).
Global/Master 3 band, full kill EQ.
FX loop RCAs.
Booth Out. (REC out would be nice).
Unnecessary:
Crossfader.
Jog Wheels.
EQ per channel.
FX buttons.
HOT CUE buttons.
XLR outs (you wouldn’t dream of directly going to an amp without a mixer).
MIC in.
PAN/BALANCE per channel.
GAIN per channel.
Display (that’s what the computer monitor is for).
My humble 2c.
im few of the lucky ones that is happy without any controller
There’s nothing wrong with banging rocks together, people can dance to that too if they’re motivated.
most people want to dance to familiar songs without interruption of pushing buttons
Most people are unaware of the possibilities at hand.
Since when has pushing buttons interrupted people dancing? Skipping needles have ruined many a flow in their time. And back in the 80s, the whole stutter effect permeated dance music and the crowd loved it.
Let’s be clear — outside of turntable and vinyl specific gigs, there’s a much bigger world of clubbers that couldn’t give a crap about the gear being used. They’re in the house to dance, not critique technology and its usage. People still dance just the same to Carl Cox if he’s using turntables, a Kontrol S8, or a bank of CDJs.
What’s a CD?
i wasnt talking about turntables.. im saying most people prefer to listen to full songs they know.. wether on cdj contr or turnt
If you’re so happy without any controller, why are you always moaning about them?
im not moaning about controlllers.. just saying i dont need them
This makes you limited and nothing more. Whether it be the many functions or capabilities you are missing out on or the simplest of small gig you could have “played” for. The tool does not make the craftsman and a good craftsman knows when to use the right tool. Feeling the need to come onto a controller specific topic just to point out you know nothing about them and do not posses the knowledge to contribute DOES come across as moaning FYI.
haha youre the one moaning look at you.. have fun with your toys
I was like that until I got a Korg NanoKontrol and started using it for controlling Serato SL DJ effects…I prefer turntables and a mixer, but the Serato effects let me apply a HPF and LPF at the same time, to each channel…something I still haven’t seen possible except on the most expensive mixers that offer multiple assignable filters, and able to put 2 on one channel…this makes it so I can use any mixer without worrying about filters being available, or if the board lacks channel eq (or if the board sucks)…
What happens if you don’t tell anyone you don’t use controllers after a while? Does it start with headaches leading to full on Scanners style head explosions? Or is it like a reflex where you don’t realise you’re doing it?
I’m just trying to figure out the logic in clicking on an article about controllers just to say you don’t use a controller.
standalone FTW!
Sound quality in a portable size. I shouldn’t have to pick a DDJ-SZ or a Numark NS7 to be able to get sound quality that is close to a higher-end standalone mixer.
Allen and Heath used to make the xone2d, if the analog output wasn’t clean enough for you, it had opical TOS link as well…superior sound! 8-in 10-out, plenty of I/O or analog or even 4 decks of DVS…
For minimalist setup, I’m using a xone2d…mapped as a mixer/cdj without using the shift feature: (2) Rotary encoders for jog, (2) rotary encoders for ch bass eq (not really necessary), (2) pot encoders for ch filter, (2) pot encoders for ch gain, (3) no-lock buttons for channel play/pause/cue, (3) no-lock buttons for ch eq kill (not really necessary), (2) outer sliders for pitch, (2) inner sliders for ch fade, jog wheel for choosing tracks from the library, (4) jog-wheel edge buttons load decks a,b,c,d, (4) locking light buttons for cue (when outputting channels internally mixed)…and the best thing about the xone2d, it has a headphone out and 4-ch pair cue system, and can be used to mix internally or output separate channels…
The ch eq kill, ch bass control, and ch filter aren’t necessary for a-b beatmatching and the jog wheel used for track selection/load isn’t either…but definitely the best single-box solution I’ve ever seen. Plus I got mine on e-bay for $120. score!!!
I have plugged this setup with laptop into my minivan stereo, and mixed tracks while standing outside of the back hatch…no permit needed!!! This can also be done while driving…obviously not by the driver!! live music mixing for roadtrips…