Yesterday, Magnetic Magazine posted an article about the stance taken by LA club Cure And The Cause about banning the use of laptops and controllers. Subsequently, Kenny Summit from the club was interviewed clarifying his points. Yes he’s very much in favour of a more traditional laptop free approach to DJing, but I couldn’t help but wonder if there’s a simple solution to the issue.
Quoting the interview, Kenny says:
“The problem lies with the opening DJs (mostly), many of them show up with a laptop and controller, and that’s all they’ve ever used. That’s a problem. They don’t know what to connect with our Pioneer system; they have no clue what they’re plugging in or what plugs they’re taking out.
Now I know young DJs have to cut their teeth, and that’s why we give the promoters the opportunity to bring in their own DJs to open… but its gotten to the point where it’s like an epidemic with these DJs who haven’t bothered to go the full distance and LEARN how to set their shit up without interrupting the flow of the night. Midnight is not the ideal time to turn the mixer off, pull it out and start guessing which port to plug your Traktor into.”
So there is a problem. But reading the above as well as other comments made by Kenny Summit on social media, perhaps it’s not that DJs are using controllers and laptops, but more the booth’s ability to easily allow a controller to be plugged in without disrupting the flow of the gig. I get that trying to find mixer connections in a booth can be hard. I can also understand the disruption that pulling out whole lumps of hardware can bring. But instead of taking it out on the modern and exponentially expanding controller DJ scene, I respectfully submit the following for discussion:
MAKE BOOTHS ACCESSIBLE AND FRIENDLY TO ALL STYLES OF DJS
Here’s the thing — controllers have been around for a decade and are here to stay. And while CDJs might be the booth standard (funnily enough they never used to be – things change, including attitudes to CDJs formerly known as toys), there’s a big wide world of DJs honing their DJ skills on controllers. And by skills, I’m talking about those that translate to any type of technology like track selection, mixing, EQing, filters, effects etc. The core of DJing is exactly the same, regardless of technology.
And these new DJs should reasonably expect to be able to plug into a house system with the absolute minimum of fuss. What are we talking about in reality — a couple of balanced cables and some power points? Are you saying that a modern DJ booth can’t find space for that?
I’ve always had an issue with industry standards being imposed a creatively rich and diverse environment. This policy is hugely limiting, and by definition is enforcing strict adherence to keeping the Pioneer DJ workflow as the standard. Wouldn’t it be much better if anyone could play in any booth with any tech they choose to bring? Isn’t choice good?
So instead of enforcing technology policies, I would suggest that clubs shouldn’t shun controller DJs, but should strive to make booths an accepting environment for ANY kind of DJ. It’s time to redesign the booth for today’s DJ scene.
OVER TO YOU
I would love to hear your experiences from the booth — perhaps from DJs who have had to deal with controller DJs messing things up, or indeed from controller DJs having a hard time in the club. Maybe club sound guys could chip in with ideas on how to make the booth a better working environment and accepting of every type of DJ.
If the opening DJ you booked missed the sound check before the club even got going they shouldn’t play, period. If the club allowed some guy to show up at midnight without having any sort of sound check / meeting beforehand that’s half their fault. I have a gig tomorrow night and have already traded a couple of emails with the club’s sound guy to arrange a time to get in there beforehand to make sure things go smoothly.
Something’s fishy on the club’s end if people are showing up at midnight with a bag full of surprises.
True, but that can be said of any given DJ regardless of the gear they use.
Soundcheck? Do you have a bassist or guitarist? Do you sing? Soundchecking doesn’t make you a DJ. A DJ arrives and start playing on ANYTHING!!!! The sound is already fine tuned for the night. No need for soundchecking!!!
I think he means prep for your gig ahead of time to avoid gotchas. Not all DJ booths are made the same and some clubs just don’t keep their booths in technically and orderly pristine condition. I don’t care if I’m playing a mobile gig or club session, I prep before hand and make sure I know my environment I will be DJing at.
I mean to make sure everything even plugs in efficiently, ensure you know the details of the changeover if there is one, and yes – in essence to set up your personal gear and make sure it can produce sound. To “check” if it will make “sound.” Soundcheck mawk! Get on board!
I didn’t say soundchecking makes me a DJ either, don’t put words in my mouth.
this is the dumbest comment I’ve ever read. And i read deadspin/gawker comments.
Had the same thought recently. True, rewiring is as much a pain in the ass as supervising someone who doesn’t know which cables to use, but how hard would it be to set up some sort of sub-mixer (http://bhpho.to/1UkbFCA) on the side for the controllers to plug into, sent to a line or aux channel on the master mixer? Absolutely no need to be unplugging decks. And as far as the actual space to set up, no reason a pro club install shouldn’t have covers for their gear; a set of Decksavers should be there already, and would afford more than enough space for most controllers.
Its pretty straight forward, have some balanced TRS cables ready and 2 spots for power. Talk about this before they show up, and if they have anything else they can kick rocks. *Maybe* some RCA …
It really is straight forward…that make those djs even more incompetent…and helped Kenny to make the decision I guess :)
No, I agree with Kenny, the main problem is: “They don’t know what to connect with our Pioneer system; they have no clue what they’re plugging in or what plugs they’re taking out.”
because of this: “DJs who haven’t bothered to go the full distance and LEARN how to set their shit up without interrupting the flow of the night”
Sometimes when I dj out I do it with laptop/controllers because I don’t think spending the value of a car in club gear to put it in a bedroom is currently ok for me and my wallet (bought at the time and have the T’s still in bedroom with vinyl/DVS , but I’ve seen what Kenny describes many times thinking “how can those folks be in this booth, now …today?”
I’ve taken the time to go to Pio site and whatch closely the back of a 900 and read about it’s routing, it wasn’t necessary but if so I’d downloaded the manual for sure, I’ve taken the time to learn everything I need to do the job I enjoy more above all jobs in this world and I’ll continue updating myself till I die…also I don’t like to be in evidence in a club where I’m going to dj …I guess that helps as well :)
How about you go get an PA mixer to be the master mixer and all the DJ mixers plug into that. That way everyone can easily plug in without have to move everything around. There are very easy, simple and inexpensive ways around this problem if you really wanted to solve it.
Yeah, why not? But it’s not necessary if dj’s know their stuff, that way you can play under any situation and you don’t look (and are) unprofessional, same with beatmatching. Clubs won’t spend money, time and space in the both just for amateurs and if a kid wants to step up at least should show up interest and some professionalism so promoters, people and club owners take him seriously, would you the other way around?
How do you redesign a booth for this world, though? Moving from turntables to CDJs and back again is just picking up on piece of gear and replacing it with something almost identical. Easy. Swap in, swap out, same cables, same everything.
How do you accommodate that with controllers, though? Is it a two channel? Modular? Is it an all-in-one beast like the SZ or the S8? Do they have a laptop and a stand? Do they need to hook up via XLR or 1/4″? Cause that’s almost impossible in a LOT of mainstream mixers, especially without needing to muck around in the back, and then we’re in the same situation we were in before. If there is one DJ it isn’t a problem, but when you have three or four, all on different rigs, it needs to be smooth, and it’s impossible to accommodate that in a booth in almost any regular (see: not festival or major mega club) booth.
It’s not just connections. It’s space. And it’s enough space for people to work on top of each other. Clubs need to be able to accommodate, but DJs need to learn how to work in these conditions as well. This isn’t about sync, or vinyl vs cds vs controllers. This is about people not knowing how to do what they are expected to do.
Granted, I don’t agree with this decision. There are VERY simple things this club could do to minimize this risk. For example, off the top of my head, require all DJs to be there 30 minutes before doors open. Provide a detailed spec sheet of what is available to all DJs or promoters to ensure they know what they need to bring.
Its really simple…a slightly wider booth or a booth with a few shelves a power strip and an RCA cable (every controller has RCA outs) connected to the main mixer…done.
Or even better – if you’re DJ’ing, and you’re bringing a controller – make sure YOU bring the right cables for your unit. Find out what mixer they have. Pretty easy.
It really is. And the venue should needs to be communicative, and professional. If everyone treats this like a business, every one wins.
So… a venue should tear out their existing booth, along with all of the wiring, rebuild it to be wider with shelving, rewire it, just so people can show up and plug in controllers?
No, that doesn’t make sense. They should work to accommodate, since it’s the world we live in, but DJs need to be professionals. Show up early, talk to the venue and get pictures of the booth, work with the promoter and other DJs to make sure the change-over is seamless. And the venue should do what they can to accommodate. This isn’t hard
It doesn’t mean tearing out the entire booth to put a small shelf in. Hell Magma makes a controller stand specifically designed to allow controllers to set up over an existing setup. Also remember that DJ booths have not always had this layout. At one point the standard was a 19in rack mixer with a 19in dual CD player from Denon. Booths will always need to be redesigned to accommodate the current technology.
Also, professionalism goes both ways. When a venue books a DJ, the second question after how much money is what do you need to perform? If the venue asked this question, then they would be prepared to accommodate the DJ when they show up. Now also if the DJ has special needs, they need to communicate that to the venue regardless if the venue ask or not.
Oh no arguments from me on the professionalism. I agree 100%. The venue needs to communicate what they can offer, and not throw this kind of temper tantrum.
As far as just stands, that would be a good middle ground. But it doesn’t alleviate DJs needing to be prepared for a gig, which seems to be the root of this tantrum, like having correct cables.
Decksavers would be a great investment for the club to protect their gear, and for controller-based DJ’s to place their kit on. No swapping of hardware necessary.
True, decksavers would be great. Though, height might be an issue,but if it’s between that and nothing it wouldn’t be that bad.
This isn’t about the booth, the booth isn’t an issue, mainly because of you want to be a DJ respect the craft enough to learn how to operate on all equipment. The military isn’t training solders to shoot only hand guns, DJs should t train to only use controllers.
Soldiers don’t have to pay for their own training.
But they do pay for their housing, their uniforms, their haircuts, and their food. Always amazed at how people think they just give you everything.
Not during boot camp.
Sorry, wrong again.
While in boot camp, i spent about $2300 on above items, and so does everyone else. The fact that the money is removed from your check before you see it, doesnt change the fact that it was your pay, and it was spent on those things.
Call me crazy, but I don’t see what the big deal is. I can think of three workarounds:
1. Have the controller plug into the Session In of the mixer (the Rane 62 has Session In & Out).
2. Have the Traktor/Serato DJ bring three USB cables with their laptop, and a USB hub if they need it. Plug the Pioneer mixer and CDJs via USB into the computer, start DJ program.
3. Have a LAN hub with a fourth port for the laptop, so the DJ can use Rekordbox on their laptop for easier browsing and not interrupt the Pioneer setup (assuming it’s of the newer variety).
And none of these solutions are really that expensive. I don’t think Pioneer mixers have a Session In & Out so I’m not so sure that would work, but I don’t see why the other two wouldn’t. Why not be prepared for all types of DJs? Besides if the DJ sucks, it’s not their equipment, it’s the DJ. Hire a better DJ.
If the house left clearly marked RCA cable leads to the Line in, there wouldn’t be a problem. The DJM 900NXS has Phono, CD/Line, Line and USB per channel.
Every booth should have:
2 techs,
2 cdjs,
4 channel mixer with aux in
, a heavy duty laptop stand that can be placed to the side or right in front,
and last but not least a friggin patch bay for your soundcard or controllers.
I shouldnt have to dig around in the dark behind a mixer thats kiiiiind of locked under a console but not really so you can still get the wires out to hookup serato or traktor.
Patchbays are the shit when labelled correctly.
LA is wack anyway.
Ha ha ha, they just don’t know how to book good DJs… That’s a stupidest thing so far… They used to tell me “You’re not real DJ because you don’t have Technics”, me and my Vestax were laughing at that piece of history… But now, pathetic DJs are afraid of newcomers and this is how you gonna stop them? Instead of admit your mistake that you don’t know how to book proper DJ, you’ll put a blame on computer? Sad
i had 2 Vestax decks but they weren’t very good to do long mixes, they were more suitable for scratching but even then i preferred the more reliable technics also vestax PDX were made out of plastic hence 3 feet broke on me, if clubs invested in Vestax they would have made a huge mistake, not to mention feedback issues.
I understand, maybe you got lemon, mine were brand new worked like a charm. On the other hand, on 75% of Technics that I played on in the clubs, pitch was fucked up… Anyway, you are not less DJ because you use different equipment, it’s the output that counts.
any pitch would get fucked up when you spill beer and coke on it for 20 years, you never had a brand new technics but believe me they are much better to records than these cheap vestax decks, first they made them in Japan but after a few years they started to manufacture in China as it’s much cheaper production wise
Cheap vestax was $200 more than 1210, so it was not about money, it was about I worked on reliable 1200 in club as resident DJ for five years, and then I tried Vestax, and I throw away Technics after first two records… All you think is plastic, but technology advanced for 20 years, you know, open that Vestax, maybe it’s not better build than old Technics, but it works just fine….
Sounds like the club has serious organisational issues, if they can’t handle the *opening* DJ having a controller! I mean, if it’s the opening DJ he is likely to set his gear up in front of an empty dancefloor anyway, and only unplugs it at the end. No need for complications or hatred…
Seriously? What sort of semi-reasonable club doesn’t have a sound guy on hand to oversee the setup of a DJ? Sounds like it’s just been put in the “too hard basket”. Their club, they can obviously run it as they see fit, but it seems like overkill.
sorry but some of you guys are wrong. soundcheck can be very important. sure, in some small hole where there isn’t much to check it makes no difference, but for a decent club that has a sound engineer on hand, soundcheck can make a big difference. yes, ultimately it’s club music but there’s a difference between dubstep/bass music and old school house, or acid, or hip hop. there are small changes the house engineer can do to the system that will make the music work better. as a dj as well, you can play some tracks, listen to the sound system, walk on the floor and see how the speakers react to small eq boosts, to filters (for example, how much do you boost the resonance if they have a&h mixers) etc.
some things you can’t really do during the set, as normally you wouldn’t have time to walk down to the middle of the floor and check out the sound. yes, you can turn up and just play but it’s better if you prepare and know how a sound system works. this doesn’t take too much time and can make a big difference in how you approach the night.
also, many clubs will not have these huge monitors and the system can overpower them especially on the low end and you can get a bad representation of how it actually sounds. the booth can be in a corner and you might have a big boomy sound but the floor is a bit weak and you need to know how it sounds so you can compensate for these things.
i never played these mega clubs but i do play every week in medium sized clubs from random places. from rome to turkey or riga or moscow. and they all sound different and they all have gear in different condition. sometimes the filter on/off buttons get stuck and then i choose not to use them or they have the monitors hooked up to the FOH mixer and you don’t have control over them so i need to repatch it directly from the dj mixer etc. or often times the ouse dj will play with everything in the red (a very common thing i run into) and when i send the FOH normal and reasonable levels, they need to turn it up and they can adjust for that before i start playing. another example is that i use rekordbox and will show up with 4 usb sticks and my headphones. and even though i try to confirm beforehand the equipment there will be this one club where they say they have cdj2000s and they have 2 denons and 2 cdj1000. so if i show up with my rekordbox usb stick, what then? this way i can curse them out a bit and have two different usb stick ready with regular folders on them so i can actually find the tracks i need during the set. not to mention the weird way of denon handling tracks.
lots of things can happen and i would rather be prepared and have the best set i can because it’s my job and it’s more than the 2-3 hours they pay me for. i would rather have dinner later and have a better sounding set and get a second booking. if you only play a regular gig or are a resident in one place than all these issues might not be something you come across. but as a touring dj that is not up there with the big names but does take it’s job seriously, these probems are real and manageable if given the right attention
100% this. Yes.
3rd paragraph down… I feel your pain. I’ve played at a club with underpowered monitors for the system they were packing. Room latency was brutal, not to mention that the booth itself was in a thick, muddy bass pocket. Some dampeners on the back wall would have helped a lot.
It’s a bit of both…. Yes a club booth could use more space for a laptop and controller, but the visiting DJ SHOULD know how the house gear works! I allways have the latest firmware and drivers on my laptop or USB drive with me, so when I run into a CDJ that doesn’t have the right firmware to run HID smootly I will update it. When the DJM900’s came I read about and tested for using the soundcard, which steps to take so I could make it work. It’s also about prepwork on OUR side. Sure, maybe a controller gives you an advantage in your set.
When I was playing out more regulary, I had a Laptop backpack with 2 32GB usb drives for rekordbox, a Audio8 with multi-cables, cd wallet with enough music to last 2 hours AND two timecode cd’s, 4 USB A-B cables, 2 backup RCA cables, mini jack-rca cable plus my Kontrol X1 & Z1 controllers. This way I could play anyway I wanted. And the foodprint is minimal. And I have used it all in every setup imaginable.
It’s bad for a club to ban a certain kind of DJ, but put some efford in professionalism people!
The irony of your spelling error in that last sentence…
Bring back the original NI multicore cables, I say!
Mark I think you should also include the original statement of the club owner which shows why this all got stirred up that much.
“Cure And The Cause ANNOUNCEMENT:
No more laptops in the DJ booth.
Unless you’re using it to control VINYL to do a turntablist type of set, a’la Jazzy Jeff type shit, or if you’re doing a LIVE thing where you’re actually programming shit on the fly. Keep your controller in your crib, dont come to work with training wheels. LEARN THE TOOLS OF THE TRADE already. Pioneer isn’t going anywhere any time soon, they ARE the industry standard, so brush up on how to use the CDJs already, get Rekordbox (its FREE) and buy a good USB stick for $40 that will store THOUSANDS of hours of music on it.
We opened this place to showcase talent. So, show us your talent. :-)”
He clearly stated that DJing with CDJs (2k nxs in this case) needs more talent and a controller is “training wheels”.
As he now backpedals and says its the changeover that causes so many problems doens’t make this first pretentious stupid statement better.
If you constantly having DJs with controllers show up in your club that play shit music, mess up your equipment, are generally a pain in the ass to handle. Then it’s probably you, your booker, your artist care or your sound guy that sucks.
I read that announcment earlier and laughed when I got to “Keep your controller in your crib, don’t come to work with training wheels. LEARN THE TOOLS OF THE TRADE already. Pioneer isn’t going anywhere any time soon, they ARE the industry standard, so brush up on how to use the CDJs already…”.
After all, it takes a professional DJ with the highest level of skill after many hours of practice to hit the sync button on a pair of CDJs instead of using sync in software.
I think the training wheel comment was what really set everybody off. The audacity to think that just because you use a controller you are some noob that doesn’t know what is going on. The fact is that there are many veterans like myself that love controllers. There are people like myself that despise Pioneer and do as much as possible to avoid supporting them. Controllers aren’t going anywhere any time soon. They are what the industry uses so brush up your booth to be ready to support them.
I just think about how many artists and DJs would have been banned from Movement or Mutek with Kenny’s thinking.
Everyone should buy a radial JDI duplex, hook it to the FOH 2 mic channels with XLRs, sorted. There is nothing that you cannot connect to it, it balances the signal and that transformer makes redlining jockeys sound less irritating.
smfh at people who “just dj” and cannot be bothered to learn the basics of FOH engineering, or audio engineering in general. Back in the day #realdjs built their own mixers for chrissakes /sarcasm
Simple if you unplug something you shouldn’t and cause a stop in the middle of the night, you void your pay. People unplugging things need to pay attention. Really it’s not the owners fault, they have their system, it’s setup, it works. Somebody comes in and messes with it – then there should be consequences if they screw up. It’s his club, if he wants to not allow laptops, thats his choice. Move on to another venue.
However if the booth was designed properly, there should be very minimum need to unplug things in the middle of a show. The whole problem is easily solved with a $5 RCA cable (that’s left plugged into ch4 of the DJM) and an $8 power strip.
Or maybe an Aux. In. RCA hub to make it easy to plug and unplug without disrupting anything else along with that $8 power strip. I think too many of these audio engineers who sell this equipment to the clubs should interview the club owners to make sure they install everything needed for how they’re going to govern the DJ’s in their particular venue. Then this stuff won’t happen.
Pardon my French but this Kenny Summit is a dumbass!
I’m with you on that.
I remove one cdj, and use that unit’s RCA and power cable. Takes 30 seconds. Where’s the problem?
Some newer DJ’s don’t even know this much :-(.
A lot of venues don’t want some random dj they don’t know touching their gear.
Which begs the question as to why venues such as the one the article is about aren’t bothering to properly vet who it is they are hiring to perform before booking them.
Well, a lot of that goes toward the way booking happens. For example, when I get booked at clubs I get booked by a promoter, not the club. The club has nothing to do with me getting booked. That being said, if I am a fucking tool, the promoter has to deal with the fallout from the club, and I won’t be booked again.
But I run in a small, underground scene, so not being a tool is important.
Understood, but by that extension the club should be responsible for vetting the promoter who should be responsible for vetting the performer. That’s how the chain works in business. If a club chooses to employ promoters to book DJs, ultimately it’s the club’s responsibility to ensure they are hiring competent promotors who do their job vetting bookings. Responsibility starts at the top of chain of command. Blame-shifting isn’t very professional.
Well, everyone is incentivized for the DJ to not suck. The DJ wants to keep getting hired, the promoter wants to keep getting hired, the club wants to have people to hire that will bring people to the club.
Just like the club has expectations for me, I have expectations from the venue and promoter (and others have expectations of me when I am the promoter). If a promoter puts on a bad choice, they will face punishment from the club. That’s not blame shifting, it’s business.
Bravo sir,
Good to hear, someone needed to say it, and it should be said more.
I don’t agree with Kenny, but I understand (at least in part) his issue with “controller DJs”. There is a whole generation of DJs that are coming up now that might be great at what they do, but have never been taught basic concepts about PA, audio signal flow, etc. The “all in one” controller products that are most popular now don’t teach you anything about connecting gear. DJs used to have to understand at least a little about grounding, ohms loads, etc because gear connection was a big part of getting heard. And you only had to blow an amp or speaker and pay for a replacement once to learn a valuable lesson about your gear. Now discreet components are only for installations. Even bigger mobile rigs regularly use “bucket” speakers with the amps built in.
If you take this, and combine it with DJs who only know how to work on their own gear and never learned how to use other sources or mixers, and the situation gets much worse. Laptop took a dump? External hard drive acting up? Tough shit kid, I’m paying you to make your noise from 10PM to 1AM, and my patrons don’t stick around long when you turn my club into a library.
This isn’t old man Murray shaking his fist at the kids in his lawn. I like how DJ is progressing. But it is a fact that due to less exposure, lots of new DJs who may otherwise be amazing at their craft can also be completely ignorant of how equipment works. You get an older (and apparently salty) club owner who happens to also be a DJ and takes these things for granted, and I can imagine he doesn’t have much patience with a DJ who never learned these lessons.
nailed it.
The part of the interview where he is saying people need to learn their craft is utter rubbish, i absolutely despise this culture of dissing people because they use a laptop.
BUT i completely agree with the fact that once the evening begins nothing should ever be messed with in the booth, if they don’t support a controller and laptop setup then the DJ playing should just bring a rekordbox USB stick, i own one and I’ve only ever used it once, but its still there for when i need it.
i kind of get what you are saying Mark regarding accessibility, but these booths are often compact and for me as long as the club is using some form of standard gear the DJs should be able to rock up and play
I don’t think this guy is dissing anyone that hasn’t learned how to use CDJs or turntables. The thing is, those that learned to DJ with classic equipment usually understand the very basics of the equipment installed in most clubs, like the DJ mixer and line/phono inputs; hence, the majority of the ridiculous ones tend to be those that only know software based DJing.
Just to give a few examples… One “DJ” was panicking that all he heard was noise from the mixer channel he connected his TRAKTOR to; he was listening to his timecode CD. Another “DJ” asked me if the loud but dirty sound was due to a bad headphone output of the mixer; he connected his TRAKTOR output to a phono input. Another “DJ” pulled out an RCA coming from a playing deck, another “DJ” noticed he had to update his Windows now, when the last song of the previous DJ was already playing, another “DJ” forgot his power adapter – of his controller – and decided to ask around if anybody had the same type of adapter 10 minutes before his turn, and another “DJ” was going nuts that the software wasn’t responding; the mapping for the hardware wasn’t selected in the Preferences, and on and on…
I think the one that shocked me the most was the dude that didn’t recognize what a timecode CD sounds like. Come on……………..
This should be the responsibility of both the club as well as the guest DJ. First, the club should have a sound/tech person that knows ahead of time what each DJ will need. How hard is it to send an e-mail to the visiting DJ and figure out what they’ll be bringing? Then, the tech can have space already arranged and a cable for a simple plug-in.
Second, if you’re DJ’ing, you should know the basics of the gear. It’s really not that complicated. Even if you don’t use a DJM, download the manual PDF and look it over to see how it works.
I disagree that venues that already have a $2000 mixer, not to mention CDJs/turntables, need to make room for inferior all-in-one controllers that can be as big as 2′ long.
Banning laptops is just plain stupid, but expecting clubs to make room for some of those monstrosity’s when they have much better gear there is just as bad.
If you play on Traktor/Serato/RekordboxDJ you should be able to do it in pretty much any DJ booth out there these days, with the mixer and decks they already have, without much accommodation.
THANK YOU!!!!!!!! great point!!!!!! I had to disconnect Pioneer setup for a $100 controller to old PC. I almost cried….. SMH But I guess its the clubs fault, maybe we should invest in a bigger booth……..
As someone that designs and builds DJ booths for clubs in my market I can say that when I have the space I leave room for as much flexibility as possible. But sometimes there’s just not going to be enough room for everything.
And having room isn’t the real issue (as you know). I don’t see what the problem is for people to learn to play on what’s in the club. AT LEAST the club’s mixer anyways! If you want to use a laptop/software with a small modular controller like a Kontrol X1 fit transport and effects I have no problem with that, but use the mixer that’s there already. Odds are it’s better than anything you might be bringing with you and only requires one USB from your laptop to the mixer and you’re ready to go. If you do need to use a soundcard make sure they have it ready for you or go before the party starts to get out hooked up. I always have an SL2 and a Traktor Audio6 on hand for my guests, just in case.
or tell djs they need to play with their ears, vinyl / cd..
Outta curiosity, do you think for some reason that laptop users DON’T play with their ears? Playing by ear is hardly exclusive to vinyl and CDJs. In fact, regarding CDJs, there’s zero difference between them and laptops when it comes to the purely optional visual playback features.
As a 20 year dj, and now 13 years into running club AV Im gonna say the person who wrote this article is a fool. I would love to not have to invest or maintain a $5k-10k dj booth. YES!!!! lets make every booth a flat table for the NEW djs. Then in 2 years you can write a article about how clubs dont provide anything. Thats what people like this author will do. They will ride whatever wave is popular and have NO STANDARDS. Standards and Principles exist in every facet of life. But now thats not good for NEW DJS. So instead of training them, lets coddle them with articles like this.
Im honestly quite tired of NEW DJS. Their entitlement without KNOWLEDGE is sickening. Maybe if 7/10 new djs knew how to hook up into any dj booth, this wouldnt be a problem.
In my opinion, if you dont know how to hook up to ANY SYSTEM, power, line, balanced and unbalanced……YOU SHOULDNT BE ALLOWED TO CALL YOURSELF DJ, no matter how good your filtering and effects are!
These same thoughts were running through my head the whole time I was reading the author’s post. If they can’t plug into a house system, what would they have done 20 years ago when we toted around 2 of each (Turntables, CD players, Tape decks, Mixer, Amp and Speakers)
Not to mention that DJing is not just about combining beats. It is the knowledge of equipment, Personality on the Mic and music history. IDK how many of these “DJs” I don’t even know the classic groups from the 50’s, 60’s or 70’s. Heck even the 80’s and 90’s are pushing it for some.
Just because you have a fancy laptop stacked with thousands of songs and some fancy equipment does not make one a DJ.
:-)
Laptops have to disappear from Dj booths. For ever. Fortunately, it seems Pioneer is getting the message… we will see.
*scratches head* Rekordbox DJ isn’t even 9 months old and they just released DVS… need a laptop for that.
I bet we will see a mixer with integrated Rekordbox in a future. No need to bring laptops then. Well, in fact the have just released the Tour Series one. Of course, it is not affordable yet, but… thats the way things will probably go.
Pioneer is expensive enough without having to cough up for these, not every club is going to have them.
http://djworx.com/pioneer-dj-tour-system/
That may have a screen, but it’s still going to require the audio processing necessary to convert a noise map from vinyl to audio output. As you mention above, you’re still going to need a laptop or similar in the setup, unless Pioneer DJ will build that into future mixers. Then it’ll need a screen port adding to mixers, or perhaps a Numark Dashboard style unit could be possible.
The Raspberry Pi’s processing power isn’t a million miles from what Final scratch required. DVS streamlined for modern embedded hardware wouldn’t be a ridiculous idea. It might just have to work on a secondary co-processor like graphics do for gaming.
Free BSD has a Kernel for RaspPi. Although check out Odroid.
My bad, Final scratch would run off Debian, not BSD. Was doing both my Linux and Unix certs. around that time. Remembered that it was compatible with one of the distros.
Personally I’d take a DJM 850 or 900NXS over a NXS2 or Tour any day of the week purely for the flexibility. Both of the models are Traktor and Serato scratch certified. You are able to cater to more people.
agreed
IMHO ‘club standard’ 4 ch mixers should have a pair of phono/line connections on the top rather than the rear to make changeovers and general accessibility better.
The article didn’t say he’s banning laptop completely, he states if you are going to use a laptop, you should be using turntables. I think he’s more pissed at the controllers DJs. “No more laptops in the DJ booth.
Unless you’re using it to control VINYL to do a turntablist type of set, a’la Jazzy Jeff type shit, or if you’re doing a LIVE thing where you’re actually programming shit on the fly.
i actually never said what anyone should or should not use. the post was made on my private page, directed at 6 djs who kept making my booth messy. wasn’t directed at DJs of the world, wasn’t forcing my will on any DJs or telling poeple what “real djs” should or should not play on…. post was just meant for the handful of djs who were using laptops to do the SAME job a cdj could use. for that specific situation, my remedy was to tell them to stop using their laptops and use the CDJs like their peers. nothing wrong w technology if you’re using it to enhance a set.
Thanks for chiming in. Sorry to hear everyone is taking your message out of context.
Mixing by ear is all you need, it is about djing .. you will need a laptop if you want to perform a live set or live act .. but a dj set does not need anything more.. just your cds or vinyls, a great mixer, headphones and 2 quality monitors.
What you need, is a proper in-house engineer, or have a stage manager that knows how to hook up.
I’ve seen my share in dj’s, from vinyl to laptop, and have been stunned by lack of basic gear knowledge in all regions.
Real headline, “club too cheap to buy Sl2 boxes or current serato dj compatible mixers.”
NONE of this is a gear issue, rather it’s 100% an incompetency issue. The bigger question here I’d think would be; Why the hell is Summit’s club, or the promoters they’ve hired to book DJs not bothering to properly vet the “talent” they’ve hired to perform at their club? Just like in any business, the blame for all this mess lays squarely on the shoulders of the people in charge who ALLOW it to happen. This idiotic throw-the-baby-out-with-the-bathwater policy of “NO LAPTOPS” looks like they’re trying to pass the buck for THEIR lack of doing THEIR job. Reap what you sow guys. BTW, I’ve witnessed countless DJs over the years who use vinyl that don’t know how to properly setup turntables, so following Summit’s logic of banning gear because who they’ve hired hasn’t been vetted, I guess the next logical policy would be to ban turntables as well, right?
Would make more sense then banning laptops there is no development in turntable technology and they take more space then a laptop or a cdj.
Is good to be able to mix anything into anything. If you’re a professional you’d know what to unplug/plug in/out. At my last sunday gig I was the single one using cdjs; small boot, I’ve unpluged a 1210, plug a 2000nxs, mix in, addthe 2nd cdj. At the end of the set, unplug one cdj, plug again a 1210, and the dj after continued flowly.
Equip every booth with a set of 1210s, and nexus… and a good mixer… don’t leave any space for Laptops. end of dot com.
That approach does exclude DVS users though.
DVS users spend too much time staring at the laptop, that nonsense needs to go, it’s time for DJs to ditch the laptop and pay more attention to the audience
Perhaps you aren’t aware, but each CDJ has large displays built right into them staring directly up at user, and many CDJ users exercise the purely optional act of staring back at CDJs just as much as laptop users optionally stare at laptop display, if not more. The obvious advantage however to laptops over CDJs is that laptop users can simply place laptop well out of the way so there is no distraction, even completely out of view of audience if so desired, something you can’t do with CDJs. Paying more attention to the audience has nothing to do with gear, rather the user. This is even true for vinyl.
i was talking about DVS, since when is a CDJ related to a DVS system?
So next time when you bring up an apple in a conversation i will talk about oranges to make my point.
My point is all you lame duck DJs: stop staring at screens SMH!
Perhaps you aren’t aware, but DVS works with both CDJs and TTs. The timecode/noisemapping is identical for both. You may want to understand the difference between apples and oranges before trying to compare them.
Perhaps you aren’t aware, but both CDJs and TTs work as DVS and have for well over a decade. They both use the exact same timecode/noisemap. It may help to understand the differences/similarities between apples and oranges when attempting to compare them.
its a digital vinyl system, people don’t mean cdjs when they say they use dvs
and yes you can also use timecoded cds but i don’t see the point in that as most people prefer the vinyl feel, else they might as well be using controllers
Guessing you must live in a very tiny bubble. Just because you don’t see the point of using CDJs with a DVS, countless others do and rely heavily on this particular combination every single day and have for many years.
im pretty sure youre the one living in a very thin bubble, you obviously didn’t get the point
i was talking about DVS not CDJ, how hard is that to understand? now don’t waste my time anymore, my gf is waiting.
You’re ignorance about this stuff is painfully apparent. DVSs are CONTROLLED by CDJs (or TTs). That’s how a DVS work. The act of paying attention or not paying attention to an audience has absolutely nothing to do with using a DVS, and/or CDJs, and/or TTs, and/or anything else. If you still believe it does then I’m afraid there’s not much anyone can do to help you.
when ppl talk about DVS they mean they are using TTs
Also there is no point in using CDJ in DVS mode when Pioneer has got the XDJ controllers, DVS main purpose is to control vinyl hence the name DVS
will you stop your obsession with CDJ? as i said before i wasn’t talking about CDJs in my initial post but you suddenly went apenuts about CDJ..smh
“when ppl talk about DVS they mean they are using TTs” – Again, this may be true in the tiny circle of users you’re exposed to, but I can assure you it’s entirely NOT true outside of it in the real world. Here’s why; Turntables are practically extinct out in the real world. CDJs on the other hand are ubiquitous. Out in the real world, DVS users must connect to what’s found when it comes to performing at venues/events which are CDJs to control the DVS. This is done by either A) timecode/noisemap, or B) HID mode. Your grossly informed comments lead me to believe that you don’t perform much/any out in the real world, which would explain your ignorance about the topic. That’s ok, but hopefully you’re learning something here.
“Also there is no point in using CDJ in DVS mode when Pioneer has got the XDJ controllers” – Huh? XDJ controllers aren’t found in venues, CDJs are. XDJ controllers are mainly used by bedroom DJs, hobbyists, etc., not professionals.
“DVS main purpose is to control vinyl hence the name DVS” – Incorrect (again). DVS’s main purpose is to be controlled by timecode/noisemap via CD or vinyl, or CDJs via HID mode, or MIDI.
“as i said before i wasn’t talking about CDJs in my initial post” – I addressed your initial post with my first response. If you go back and read the thread you’ll see how the discussion evolved from there. CDJs is part of what the OP is about, which ties directly in to your initial comment which is an uninformed blanket statement.
“you suddenly went apenuts about CDJ..smh” – Incorrect. I’m cool as a cucumber my friend. Just responding to the topic YOU publicly posted, a topic that doesn’t hold any water when analyzed.
Gentlemen – I’m drawing this thread to an end. The semantic ping pong surrounding the meaning of DVS isn’t adding anything to the is thread. Ta very much.
Perhaps you aren’t aware, but each CDJ has large displays built right into them staring directly up at user, and CDJ users exercise the purely optional act of staring back at CDJs just as much as laptop users stare at laptop display, if not more. The obvious advantage however to laptops over CDJs is that laptop users can simply place laptop well out of the way so there is no distraction, even completely out of view of audience if so desired, something you can’t do with CDJs. Paying more attention to the audience has nothing to do with gear, rather the user. This is even true for vinyl. the more you know dot com.
There’s always space for a laptop. Nobody ever said users are forced to place them on the work surface. There’s plenty of options for integrating a laptop without getting in way of other gear. try being more creative dot com
You rarely see a professional DJ take an all in one to a gig (carl cox
uses s8). My opinion is if you want to use a controller just take a
modular one it’s easier for everyone (Traktor X1 or Xone K2 for example). It will take up less space and is easier to set up. You can just use the mixer if there is a DJM in the booth.
But the real reason club owners want to ban laptops is not space
or all those false arguments. They just think that controllerism is for
people without skill. And real DJ’s use a Turntable or CDJ because you
have to have real skill to do that. It is true that you have to practice
harder to make good use of turntables and CDJ’s but that does not mean
that you necessary only have real skill if you use a specific gear. Who
cares about what someone uses it’s only about the music. If someone sucks on a
controller he will not do it better on CDJ or turntable.
The Baby Box at Ministry of Sound has a Xone:PD that the decks run through on their way into the mixer. It took seconds to hook up my Traktor A10, slap my X1s on the desk and start playing. That patchbay costs £130 new. Any club willing to spunk £1300-1700 on a Pioneer mixer can afford to have a PB in place and quit the bitching. It keeps the newbs from fucking around with the connections too.
And it made it to the Guardian. And thanks to Chris Bartholomew for the shout out in the comments. https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/jun/08/djs-laptop-ban-california-dance-music-technology
I understand the owners reasoning for taking this step though i don’t wholly agree with it. As i see it banning laptops will reduce the amount of Djs who aren’t skilled—which leads me to the part i disagree with banning the laptop. The promoters job is to acquire the talent & if the promoter or promoters are constantly bringing subpar talent to the club, that issue needs to be addressed. Untalented dj’s have always existed regardless of the medium they choose to use—personally i would love to get to a club & the dj booth has top of the line WORKING gear–even though i primarily use turntables i can DJ on any medium–Laptop, CDJ or Controller. These young “DJ’s” need to learn their craft before calling themselves “Djs”
When CDJ s first came to dj booth in clubs , most DJ s didn`t respect those that were playing cd`s , now that is the case with controllers , for cca 10 years we`ll se what future brings ? haters will hate :)
hmm…
being everything from dj, sound guy, bartender, stage manager, entertainment manager, venue manager I would like to point out that in reality some djs show up with an entourage all looking for free bottle service before their blacked-out-dj-hero friend has even plopped his $1100 tv/vcr combo controller carelessly on top of 3 Rane magnetic faders and a pressure sensitive cdj jog wheel worth more than your used honda civic…Usual response from stage management is, “WTF are you doing to our equipment?!, your stage is back there in the patio anyways. Go that way.” and they usually apologize and realize it’s not a fraternity party gig anymore. It’s hard enough to have to explain what the red lights mean on the db meter. No real clubs are having trouble providing a couple DI lines for inputs, but some djs don’t even know what that means. It’s less about anti future technology in the dj world as it is weeding out the weak breeds and humble the kids so they can continue to grow and respect the venue.
i hope that makes sense
All right let me chime in here … I read enough…
Since I live in the LA area and have done a handful of venues… I think I’m qualified to leave a comment.
I usually use my Numark IDJ pro since it’s very portable.
And yes it does run on an iPad not a laptop.
The only process for Setting up is one RCA jack yes a red and the white connection and power cable.
So I don’t know what the big fuss is I have my DJ set up running in about five minutes.
They don’t even have to turn off the music is just an extra input for RCA jacks.
I’m not sure if the club you’re referring to just wants some free promotion on your website but I have never heard of this going on in Los Angeles.
I think the real issue the club owner is having with is he is hiring cheap newbie DJs who are very nervous when hooking up their system.
We need to do is hire professional DJs that’s the problem that most venues are having when you trying to save money.
love you guys
Technology is doing what it has always done, allow us to do more and do it better and faster.
The very first beat-matching, break-riding DJ’s used dual-speed, belt-drive turntables and mixers with pots instead of faders. Then the direct-drive, variable-pitch turntable was invented. I bet the guys who had to learn to beat-match on two impossible-to-sync turntables thought the guys with their pitch faders and torque and quartz-locked accuracy were posers, too.
CDJ’s were the next big advancement. The amount of music one could carry in a small CD wallet would fill several heavy crates of vinyl. Not to mention a permanent lack of audio degradation. But now music was too easy to come by. Love that track you heard another DJ playing? No more endless digging through crates at the record store looking for a copy. Just buy it on CD, or have someone burn you a copy. Plus, pitch could be even more consistently locked in sync because the audio was being digitally reproduced, so the pitch was no longer a physical element. Many early CDJs would even analyze the BPM, so even though it wouldn’t sync the pitch for you, it was pretty simple to just adjust the pitch fader on the incoming track until the numbers on the display matched. Yes, you had to do the initial match-up and cue on time, but once you were in sync, you could pretty much forget about it. No more need to constantly ride the pitch fader, or a lot of pushing or dragging.
Now we have ridiculously powerful software on our ridiculously powered laptop computers, selecting from hundreds if not thousands of tracks saved on a hard drive that could fit in a back pocket. Now, instead of just playing song after song in succession, we have auto-sync, hot cues, auto-looping, track stems, and loop/sample playback. One DJ can now mix a traditionally produced track with one that has been broken down into it’s separate stems along with any number of loops and hits, all while adding a plethora of highly complex effect chains. Some DJs even find ways to add in live/improv performance like finger drumming, vocal looping, and synth playing. Which is all very cool and envelope-pushing.
Does that mean that some will only use it to make some basic skills even easier? Of course. But that’s why we push the envelope. Yes, everybody can beat match if the software does the heavy lifting for you. But if that’s all you are doing with it, you won’t be impressing anyone for long.
If all you are doing is conventional DJing/beat-matching, you should probably be able to do that on any pro house system. But if you are incorporating original and unique performance elements into your set, you should bring whatever equipment you feel is necessary to create your art and entertain, and the club owners and promoters should understand. After all, if you were a musician the venue wouldn’t demand you only play on ‘house’ instruments. And as was mentioned by another, an easily accessed patch bay or small mixer would help facilitate a seamless swapping in/out of equipment, maybe even a hardware limiter to prevent signal overload. To be honest, I’m surprised more clubs don’t already have something like that set up, especially with so many big named DJs incorporating their own custom performance setups.