Native Instruments’s new fangled Traktor Kontrol S8 proposes a new way for DJs to perform. It eschews the decades old vinyl-based DJ workflow, and instead brings a format that is arguably more suited to the digital age. This of course awakens the keyboard warriors inside the detractors and naysayers, much like when CDJs, DVS, controllers, and touch screens were all put out there for the first time. They’re either toys that pros will never use, will never be seen in booths, or they’re just plain cheating. They’re also apparently fads that will never catch on, which looking at the DJ scene over the last decade patently isn’t true for any of them. So why do people fear new technology in DJing?
New ideas are good
No really. I know some of you fear them, but new stuff isn’t here to eliminate your existing setup. Here’s the thing with new technology — I don’t for a moment think that when a designer sits with a blank canvas that they set out to design the next big thing that will banish all the old things to annals of DJ history. I think that they hope to create something cool that people will love and buy by the container load.
Without new ideas, we would not have loops, cues, samples, effects, digital audio… I could go on, but you get the idea. And I’m looking forward to what comes next too.
This and that
There seems to be a mentality from a section of the scene that sees each new wave of technology as the great usurper, designed to pillage and plunder the current scene and leave a trail of destruction. History has shown that some new waves of technology did have an adverse impact on the current ones, if only because the new ways tick more boxes of the masses than before. But history has also shown that there’s a trickle-down effect where successive generations learn and borrow from the previous one, and that the old ways come back to the surface again anyway.
The S8 is a clear example of this. It does indeed leave behind the things we would otherwise take for granted to deliver a controller that challenges convention. But at the same time it also lets you directly hook up turntables and CDJs. Thus the S8 is both a next level controller, and a 4 channel DVS mixer with added controller functionality. It really does depend on your viewpoint.
My point is that you shouldn’t view this technology as mutually exclusive. You can hook all sorts of technologies up and create a setup that works for you. Think ‘this and that’ not ‘this or that’.
Nothing has changed
Reading some of the comments on here, you’d be forgiven for thinking that some genuinely fear new ideas. The hostility shown is genuine, but quite unnecessary.
Let’s do a short test. Go over to your current gear — spin some tunes and do what you would normally do in your DJ life. Amazing, your old gear still works exactly the same as it did before the advent of the latest and greatest. You can still play the same tunes and mix them the same way for your audience, who largely couldn’t give a crap about your gear anyway.
And despite NI’s best efforts to allegedly eradicate turntables and jog wheels, they’re still just as popular as they were before. In fact, the rampant march of controllers through the DJ landscape, turntables are more popular than at any time in the last ten years. Like any technology-led scene, the further the industry pushes forward, the more attractive the old ways look, which is why despite having cameras so ridiculously amazing and cheap, every damned picture online has been pushed through a retro filter.
You don’t have to use it
Some see change, but I see choice, and there’s more than ever, and new things are coming out all the time. These choices often fall into neat genres so that you can subscribe to a particular tribe, that at one end lets you spin real vinyl, and at the other use gesture control and not touch anything, with many stops in between. Choice is good.
And choice means not using something too. Nobody is forcing you to drop hard cash on the newest shiny, because as discussed above, your old stuff still works as it did before. I just wish more people would try out new things and decide that it’s not for them rather than heap hate without even giving something new a chance.
Not liking something does not mean you have to vocally hate it either. I cannot stand flip flops, like really irrationally despise them. Should I walk up to everyone in the street and verbally attack people who wear them? No. So why do people insist on doing it online when talking about DJ gear?
The wheels don’t stop spinning
Technology never stops evolving. Whatever state we’re at now, you can be sure that somewhere in a secret lab is the next big thing, and probably the next revolution is almost certainly being kicked around a drawing board. Whether the next attempted coup actually works remains to be seen. CDJs and controllers certainly saw huge changes in the scene, and mobile devices are beginning to make themselves known.
But some purported revolutions have not had quite the same impact. Touch and gesture technology haven’t really caught on in a big way, because DJs have made it clear (though not buying them) that they generally want to grab hold of things when DJing. Video is another allegedly huge revolution that has yet to take hold, perhaps not succeeding because of trying to make it work in a DJ workflow. But that’s another story.
I would however say that the DJ gear scene is maturing, with old and new tech being used at the same time. But truly new and unique ideas are few and far between now. Even the newest controllers (Kontrol S8 and Numark NV) are just reworks of existing hardware and ideas.
Summing Up
Nutshelling this for all those who simply jump to the last paragraph:
- New thinking in DJ gear is good, and brings some cool ideas to the scene.
- New ideas do not replace existing ideas, but can complement them.
- Your current DJ gear still works just the same as it did before. Try it.
- You are under no obligation to use the new gear. Ever.
- Expect more new ideas that challenge convention. And live with it.
So you see that you have nothing to fear from new ideas in DJ gear. They’re not here to kill off what has come before it, and makes the DJ scene a richer and more vibrant place. You don’t have to use it, but if you do it’s not necessarily to the exclusion of what you’ve used before. It’s perfectly possible for you to use both perhaps even at the same time.
i never got this ..why the hate on new tech . everyone says its not real djing .
what everyone forget is samplers have been around .
hell Bruce Haack built a digital sampler which he demonstrated on Mister Rogers Neighborhood in 1967
. i had a buddy that had a AKAI MPC2000 and he would use it with his turntables
its still real djing its just not the way a lot of real djs want to work ;)
This just in from Facebook — looks I spoke too soon:
I never seem to sell any of my old gear. I have a set of no name belt drive tables which I used to play out with. I throw some records on them every now and then and it really makes me appreciate what I have now. I don’t remember how I was able to make that stuff work. Currently I’m using an NS7II and I really only use maybe half the features on it. I just started doing video which really feels next level, but I didn’t need any new gear to do it. Part of me wants to go back to the simple time when I just had two records, no effects or other shenanigans. The other part remembers how much work it was to setup, and how heavy all those records were.
Since much of this new tech coming out for DJs to use feels focused on reaching all this said “nextlevelness”, leaves me with a pressing question: Is traditional A-to-B DJing atill relevant?
*still
I don’t think there’s any question that it is still relevant. I think, however, that these companies can’t actually really improve upon the mindset/workflow and are trying to expand upon it. I genuinely believe that 90% of DJs, if not more, will almost never graduate beyond a-to-b mixing. In the future, maybe in ten years, when a whole generation of DJs enter the market who have never seen a vinyl record or touched a turntable, this might be different.
But these companies can’t go away, cause that isn’t how, y’know, business works. So they are trying to convince us what’s next, and some things they will get right, some things they will get wrong, and we are the suckers wasting money on gear :p
yes for about 950 djs out of a 1000
For most DJs, it is entirely relevant, and isn’t likely to change any time soon.
I really love the premise of this article. I have seen argument after argument about “lack of Jog Wheels” and lack of “Pitch faders” on the Kontrol S8. People just don’t “get it” and have a limited view on what Native Instruments has created. I commend their innovative approach and I know in its own little way they have shaken up the industry a bit. Pioneer did the same thing in their own little way with the creation of the DDJ-SX and DDJ-SZ by adding Performance Pads, then Colored Pads, and then Serato Flip, as well as DVS support. Look at the controllers coming out now introducing those very same features? In the end we the end user win.
What bugs me is that if Ni made something like an x1 with a jog wheel the thing would sell by the bucket load yet they chose to ignore what a hell of a lot of people want,maybe its not too forward thinking and creative for them,they try to reinvent the wheel and I think the s8 will become a white elephant.
None of these top touring djs are going to cart an s8 with them not in a million years,its still going to be a laptop plus a couple of x1’s.
Tell me I’m wrong
The thing you mentioned already existed. It was called the reloop contour. Great device it just didn’t sell well. I don’t know why.. I got 2 of them :)
I’ll tell you you’re wrong. Because, as far as I see it, you are.
A BUNCH of companies have tried to make the X1+Jog Wheel controller (Reloop, Numark, Behringer, Stanton, etc.) and they have failed. I mean, some people buy them, but even when they are really good they don’t sell really well. People keep saying they want them, but in reality they don’t. The X1s fill a vastly different need, but most of the market doesn’t want modular.
Why is Native Instruments going to try and reinvent the turntable or CD deck? Those have been perfected. You want to use it with traktor? Use it via HID or DVS. Boom, you have exactly what you want.
And the S8 doesn’t reinvent a single wheel. It’s a big mixer with deck controllers. It’s a better Xone:4D. That’s it. It has screens, better integration, and more controls, but in the end it’s a bigger, better mixer.
And top touring DJs rarely A) buy gear because they get it given to them by manufacturers or B) cart gear around because they have riders which require gear to be provided. The consumer is who matters, and they are buying all-in-one controllers and mixers. The F1 got purchased but I’d put money down that almost every person (and I know there are exceptions here) who bought it either remapped it in MIDI mode or it is collecting dust because they never use remix decks.
Yes but ni have not brought one out. I personally don’t want to use a Stanton or otherwise. Was the twitch not along similar lines to the s8.
Of the touring traktor dj how many use all in one controllers. Not many I would suggest. If you’re talking just consumer bed room djs then I agree with you.
No matter how many well-written, well-argumented and fact-based articles one writes, there’s still the certain faction of the DJ community that just doesn’t get – nor do they want to get it.
One can reason until one is blue in the face, but it’s still the same “blah blah fake button pushers blah blah sync button cheating blah blah ruining the art form blah blah anybody can now be a DJ blah blah real DJs use this and this blah blah” bullshit.
People are dumb, m’kay.
if you think that anybody is impressed by either sync or pushing buttons then youre living in a dream world
the reality is that nobody cares about it, only the geeks/nerds that do it themselves, lets put it this way, if a rock drummer started to get rid of his drumset and bought a maschine to hit buttons on stage he wouldnt get no pussy no more, actually a self proclaimed rock drummer who never used a real drumset is not considered a drummer, he is considered a FAKE (because he calls himself a drummer while he never touched a drumset)
fake Djs everywhere, nobody is impressed and nobody cares, but the geeks seem to get upset when real DJs say: look at that fake ass toy lol
And yet the likes of Ritchie Hawtin fill stadiums all over the world and garner respect from fellow DJs. And the huge DJTT community is founded on the very principle of pushing buttons. The equally massive DDJT community supports a scene full of new digital DJs who use sync and press buttons. That isn’t “nobody”.
But this story isn’t about fake DJs or the currently popular realdjs hashtag. It’s about how new gear doesn’t replace old gear. It’s about how you can still go about your current DJ business and use your gear exactly as you do now. Another decade of DJ technology can come out, and you’ll still be able to use your Technics.
Ladies and gentlemen, we’ve found the winner of the Missing The Point award of 2014.
First of all, nobody said pushing buttons or syncing should be considered impressive. Playing other people’s recorded music isn’t particularly impressive, no matter how you do it.
The point is, that no matter how DJ technology changes – or should I say, expands – there seems to be this group of people like you who is stuck in this ridiculously close-minded set where only one option exists.
I don’t even bother to start with the fallacies of your drummer analogy. Obviously drummer using a drum machine is not a drummer anymore, he become a producer, which is a whole different ball game. Apples and oranges.
Button pushing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Bk43oibIek
Wow. No wonder the crowd looks so bored.
i <3 plug and Wagonchrist… nuff said.
People get impressed all the time by my finger drumming, pseudo-remixed, thorougly digital style.
Comparing a drummer in a band to a DJ is a fallacy in itself.
nice setup, i got the same but using hdx and 1210 and other mixer, very good article once again greatjob
[i]1. Culture always builds on the past.
2. The past always tries to control the future.
3. Our future is becoming less free.
4. To build free societies you must limit the control of the past.[/i]
Brett Gaylor in “RIP. A remix manifesto”
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RiP!:_A_Remix_Manifesto
This is the manifesto for remix and copyright but it fits well in this kind of discussion due to the nature of mind and fear to change.
[i]All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.[/i]
Arthur Schopenhauer
German philosopher (1788 – 1860)
@Mark
Anytime I suggest the possibility of how interesting will be the turntable automation (more in the case of re-reproduction for e-learning process) your fear comes alive in the form of “I don’t want to see automated machine doing scratches… And so” so this article is interesting because it means you should hear yourself and give another chance to it.
I recomend you the ScratchML project, the skrat.ch project and the vids from youtube called “turntable surgeon”.
Serato Flip is the first step in this direction (making a automated loop from push button routine similar to live looping applied to a mpc) and it will be useful to have the same for scratch/juggling technics to learning and producing process. I’m going to explain it a bit…
To learning for teach kids with game forms like “horse” one to one but with graphical support and analisys (singstar technology is an example). It could be applied as a filter for online battles (if anyone wants more info on this please ask)
To producing process it will supose a true “mixtape” feature. You can do this now with scratch track plugin from stagecraft soft. It works in the two directions. You could record your technique, you could re-draw it or you could share it as a “ttm”
Last point for the mpc lovers (and those who felt that Reinnassence wasn’t a true mpc)
Did you see the new Trigger Finger Pro? It has pads, rgb (hello traktor and live), it has step secuencer (hello mc series), midi out (hello akai samplers) and internal secuencer… It could record beats you perform from any point (pads, steps, computer throught usb…) and it is cheap (price at maschine mikro range)
If you arrived to here… We have the chance to have something similar (far better in mi humble opinion) to the Bridge for less money and compatible with the majority of gear out there…
Aenslaed asked if It is still relevant (I remeber argue with him, Jared and others in the past about this future) and I answer “Yes it is but it is still in our hands to open our minds to teach new generations in the right way, not “our opinion right” way… The right way to them!
Technology is one of the best aid we have. Culture is the main one for sure.
#realdjsaretruemusiciansfirstandbetterhumanbeingsatall.
And yes it is a bit “offtopic” but I think is in the root of the culture problem.
;)
It’s nothing to do with fear at all. What you’re proposing (as I understand it) is the automation via hardware and software of artistry and skill. It would be like watching a robot pianist vs a concert pianist. I want to connect with a person and their skill.
I don’t want DJing turned into this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXrNCak63u0
Amazing robotics and coding, but the video showed a process and not a performance. This however is a performance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-V4bGocFwnE
That’s what I’m talking about.
Sorry for the delay…
That’s the point of your missconception. This possibility is one of them like Sequencer… Did them borrow the pleasure to perform music? Not. Did them give us the possibility to record/edit/share? Yes.
The first use in my mind is realtime jamming over net (local and internet). The secondary is record and analysis for performing skills improvement.
The last is offline editing for improve mixtaping or artistic purposes (data extraction applied to visuals and so on.
The only scenario I will use it attached to a robot will be for generative sculptures or similar where human is the performer and technology the tool.
When robots being intelligent (ai) then I will love to play with them not against them but I don’t believe in Yo, robot! Skynet histories… Tech is a tool.
;)
And maybe my fault to not explain myself in right way… But skrat.ch project is pretty descriptive by itself. Peer2peer (human after all hehe) turntablism e-learning system.
It is not to kill the human, it is to teach kids (and anyone interested too) the artform of turntablism before this become lost or irrelevant.
;)
First of all, I’m not a dj. I’m a 46 year old consumer who buys dj equipment as a hobby to mix music. I supported my hobby since the 9th grade and I purchase my first pair of technics 1200s at the 21 years of age. I brought tons dj gear in my life time, but I don’t consider myself as a dj because I never made enough money to be a professional or career dj. Paris Hilton is more of a dj, than I am in a since she is making money as a profession. Skill wise I believe I am better, but she’s playing in clubs and already reach the level I dreamed of. I am a license union plumber/pipefitter. That’s been my profession since I was 18 years old.
My thoughts is, if you look or search the entire internet you will notice not one professional fameish dj like kid capri, jazzy jeff, funk master flex or any dj genre from hiphop to house. Argues over different dj gears. You don’t see videos, bloggs or review from them at all. But, the so called dj community which should be called the consumer dj product buying community, got more things to say as if someone really give a damn. Which is funny because, if you made a name for yourself maybe someone will take notice in your comments. Atleast to the level where a gear manufacture will come to you and ask can we make a video of you using our new product. Why as a consumer, we always bashes products we don’t have, don’t want or can’t afford. Why is it when a consumer buys a product we have to justify our purchase as a hatred towards other products in the same group. It only shows we are not smart consumer, but a zombie buyer in the fact we are brain dead. If you look at youtube comments. It shows we are down right retarded.
I agree with the article in the point there’s no need to debate about equipment that don’t peak your interest. If you don’t see it being useful for you. Look past it, move on.
What I find funny is we call our selves djs. DJ is the abbreviation short for Disc Jockey. There is a small amount of us spinning records or cds today. 90 to 95 percent of us never mixer at a radio station. I consider myself as a hobbyist remix artist.
Summing Up:
Your old DJ Gear still works… and probably works better because is mainly made of iron so don’t belong to the “plastic age” and the “planned obsolescence” era and the “everybody thinks that can be a DJ, let’s sell millions”… “It’s the great DJ Swindle!”
Who cares what gear you have – if the crowd is dancing – then you are doing your job.
Why does it have to be more complicated than this?
Exactly! Although, as someone who has been doing this for nearly 20 years (wow I’m getting old), I always have that extra bit of respect for any DJ that still plays vinyl. Completely irrational, I know, as the end results are ultimately the same, but only if the DJ is doing a good job. Cheap plastic controllers plugged into a laptop do take the shine of things for me, but again that’s just nostalgia getting in the way of enjoyment. These days I try not to peep into the DJ booth, but if I do and I see the DJ battling with a big bag of wax, they automatically get extra respect. Like I said, a bit irrational, but I spent far too many years mixing on cheap-o belt drives and that camouflaged Kam battle mixer to suddenly put sync button controllerists on that same pedestal.
Not that anyone cares, my setup is a best of both worlds. Two 12’s and a Z2. My old school techno-phobe mates can use it no problem, and if you’ve just got a USB full of wavs then thats no problem either.
there is a saying which goes “I don’t suffer fools” what it means is that the “I” has already experienced something, and refuses to suffer through that learning process again just because some individual or group is attempting to force the “I” to “suffer” through something, of which “I” already knows that failure is a forgone outcome.
I apologize for making all those videos that convinced people that midi controllers and ipad were as good as traditional audio gear, and replacements for it, I Was Wrong.
Some controllers are good, and have a place in a mixed set-up, but in no way shape or form are you getting the most for your time djing(whether paid or not), if you don’t have at least one turntable in the mix. You are missing out, the listeners are missing out.
We, who have had the privilege of using all these different controllers, softwares, and apps must step up and proclaim; DITCHING the TURNTABLE was a Huge mistake!!!
I embraced midi controllers, because I thought they would progress, get bigger, and get better(i.e. become motorized) I never envisioned a world where people would be convinced to discard man’s greatest invention, the wheel, from djing.
Personally, I’m going back to all turntables, all the time, about half and half vinyl and dvs, with some arcade button controllers for software help, because I don’t care what controller you buy or how much you spend, the buttons won’t compare to nice arcade buttons, they just don’t.
I’ve made the journey from pt-2000s, to 1200s, to cdxs, to scs3d(which is a truly great midi achievement), to the 1d, the ns7, to vci 300, to ipad, to making my own controllers, and to me, nothing beats a brand new set of Numark TTX.
I have a ton of fun with an ipad, vestax mixer and 1200’s. It feels “computerless” eventho the ipad is a computer itself.
I also hate flipflops.
I can’t believe people still get hung up on the “button pushing” thing. Sure, beat-mixing takes a little bit of time to perfect, but anyone can learn it given the time… the ability to beat-mix does not make a DJ.
You could beat-mix better than everyone – but if you’re playing music that nobody likes – you won’t go far. If you’re playing tracks that don’t go well together, that don’t create a good flow, that aren’t mixed together at the right stage – you won’t go far.
The best DJ’s tick all the boxes.
It’s an inherent skillset that has been honed with years of practice and experience.
Yes, 100%.
It’s like there were never bad DJs before sync.
Mark, I saw a DJ set recently by Cherrystones who was quoted as saying, “We got to keep the truth through music, that’s the only thing we have. F**king more UNITY less bullsh*t.”
Anyways, as usual great article!
Clickbait?
A great mix trumps whatever methods were necessary to make it. Equally important is the desire to push the bounds of whatever came before. While I applaud manufacturers for experimenting in pushing new gear, it is the ARTIST that defines the ART. Shame on us DJs for not pressing the envelope and making new techniques.
I don’t fear new technology…. I just don’t see anything really new about the NV or S8. I have had the Numark V7s since they were released and find them to be on the cutting edge at the time and honestly think they still hold an edge to a lot of things released since. Throwing some LCD screens on a controller that still requires a laptop isn’t cutting edge. Its someone listening to a bunch of whiny DJs complain that the laptop interferes with their interaction with the crowd. if your LCD screen is preventing you from seeing your crowd or your crowd seeing you, maybe your LCD screen is too big (Just Sayin’). Or maybe you are worried people are going to say you aren’t a real DJ. If you are worried that people are going to say you aren’t a real DJ, maybe you aren’t or maybe they don’t have a clue about DJing. I hate the “that dj isn’t using turntables” comment. Because the DJ that is using turntables or CDJs most of time is using Serato. People use to walk up to me and say “its nice to see a dj playing on turntables” then I would educate that person that I am simply using a controller that has a moving platter like a turntable. That told me people aren’t listening to what you are doing they are watching. I always thought DJ are more for listening aspect not the visual, minus turntablist. So if anyone thinks by using a certain piece of gear is going to make them more of a DJ than the other DJs, LOL you are wrong. take the time learn the craft an then you can say that you are more than a DJ than the other person. Because by learning the craft you will know what makes you more and them less. I don’t care if you play wax, cds, or mp3s either that isn’t going to make you a dj more than the others either if you don’t know how play.
I very much appreciate this article. There really does seem to be some hysteria about what you currently have is obsolete, which is patently false. While it is true that the whole world seems like it’s welcoming new technology, it doesn’t mean old tech needs to go… now.
If anything, we’re seeing a lot more modularity in the DJ field, where you can add-on almost all of the new features you like to your existing setup, but we’re not replacing the human behind the gear… yet.
Your comment is awesome. But the moment the next one is posted, yours will be dead to me. ;)
It’s OK, I’m modular like that. :)
The elephant in the room – new DJ tech makes it easier for talentless or lazy DJs to call themselves DJs. That’s the bigger concern. Other than that, no problem with tech.
Sure. Who cares what they call themselves, though? Doesn’t make you any more or less of a DJ. :)