SPOTTED: New Pioneer CDJ/sampler hybrid coming?

It looks like Pioneer DJ is testing out the idea of ditching the jog wheel and grafting buttons into a media player to make a sampler/CDJ hybrid.

Pioneer DJ MPC sampler CDJ Toraiz DJ leak teaser (2)

This weekend, a couple of suitably blurrycam images (here and here) started circulating on social media. “Looks like a birthday cake someone’s made” was one comment in our Slack channel, a comment that is hard to disagree with. But a little forensic Photoshop work revealed that this unit, clearly from Pioneer DJ, looks to be quite legit.

And then this video popped up on Dirtybird Record’s Twitter channel:

So it’s clearly not a birthday cake. But before I speculate, let’s make a few things clear:

  • I don’t know what it is, nor have I received any info on it. Thus I’m not breaking any embargoes or confidences. I never do.
  • Seeing as it’s appearing in assorted social media posts (and importantly not being taken down), this is classed as journalistic fair game.
  • Pioneer DJ has been approached for comment, but none is forthcoming.

Clear? Good. Now let’s have some good old-fashioned DJWORX fun.

WHAT IS IT?

Despite the assorted logos being gaffer-taped over (I’ll get to that), this is quite clearly a Pioneer DJ unit. The round buttons are the biggest giveaway, but the general look and feel of the unit scream CDJ, and also Toraiz.

And this dear reader is exactly what I think this is — a Toraiz SP-16 in a CDJ box. Here’s my usual extrapolation of the media I have available:

SPOTTED: New Pioneer CDJ/sampler hybrid coming?

…and here’s my Toraiz jigsaw frankenshop chop:

SPOTTED: New Pioneer CDJ/sampler hybrid coming?

So basically, I’ve taken the Toraiz SP-16, moved it around a bit, tried to work out what the buttons are, and left some spaces where I know buttons exist but cannot tell what they are, and haven’t spent as much time on proportions, simply because I was getting lost in Photoshop and not writing. I’m not even going to try to talk knowledgeably about the features, because it’s not my area of expertise.

I must stress, this is very much my imagination and Photoshop skills at work. I have no idea what the product is called, but adopting a familiar DJ format suggests it being an advanced sample player rather than full-on sampler and editor. This is why I dubbed it the “DJ-16 professional sample player” and have put it in the Toraiz product group, albeit hedging my bets with a rekordbox logo too. There is some debate about this in the team, so let’s look at my thinking.

It’s clear that Pioneer DJ has solid intentions in the producer/performer sector, but putting a device like an MPC or Maschine in front of DJs doesn’t always compute — it doesn’t conform to two turntables and a mixer, nor does it fit into a logical place in that setup. So making a Toraiz into a familiar media player format immediately fits into a standard setup, and makes it more attractive to DJs. The leaks show one sitting in a conventional setup with three other CDJs.

But for me, it’s not strictly a DJ player. It’s a sample unit, and fitting better into a performer or producer workflow. As a reworked SP-16, it makes more product sense to leave it in that product group than have a very similar unit sat in the DJ sector. There’s also a benefit in not having it in DJ — should it fail to capture the attention of DJs, then the DJ sector can avoid a flop and have an untarnished reputation.

It is of course equally plausible to see this as say an SDJ or BDJ and happily sitting in the DJ sphere. I guess we’ll have to wait and see.

SPOTTED: New Pioneer CDJ/sampler hybrid coming?

LOOKS FAMILIAR?

This isn’t the first time that buttons have been postulated for DJs. Back in 2012, Numark floated the trial balloon called the MPC DJ, essentially an NS7 with the mixer section replaced by Akai controls. It never really went anywhere despite appearing on may retailer’s site. Indeed, it still listed by some today.

And while technically an all-in-one controller, the Novation Twitch bravely ditched the jog wheel in favour of an all control affair. And while it didn’t change any games, it did at least get people thinking beyond traditional workflows.

And in the same breath, we must talk about the Traktor Kontrol S8 and S5, but specifically the Kontrol D2, the small format controller that is pretty much a full deck for Traktor’s attempt at redefining the #futureofdjing. It didn’t, and the MPC DJ never made it to production. Can this Pioneer hybrid unit change that?

Much will depend on support. Stems haven’t really set the world on fire. And putting a sample workflow into a DJ setup without a steady stream of decent content is doomed to fail. If however Pioneer DJ can deliver a steady stream of material to run on this unit — and by this I mean samples and loops from popular artists just like Maschine Expansions do, then it might be in with a chance of wider adoption. It would also be rather nice if it worked with Stems too.

WE LIKE IT

I’ve already talked about wanting to step outside the A to B and back again of regular mixing, and wanting to experiment with loops. And this unit would give me the functionality I’d need without the need for a jog wheel. Indeed, three years ago we talked about the need for jog wheels at all, and while it’s clear that people prefer them, some at least are open to the idea of trying to DJ without them, if not already adopting a non-jogwheel workflow.

Even though this is obvious to most, I’ll point this out anyway — just because Pioneer DJ is dabbling with this concept, it doesn’t mean they’ll be throwing jog wheels away. This will be in addition to, not instead of jog wheels.

Now for Pioneer DJ to go down this route suggests that they’ve done their research and have seen an area that at best will make them some money immediately, or at least opens doors to other profitable areas. They don’t do things on a whim, especially when answering to investors who want a return. So while some of you will think the idea of such a unit is plain nuts, there’s a reason it’s being made.

YOUR THOUGHTS?

Does this appeal to you? If not why not? Or are you putting all your DJ gear on eBay as we speak in readiness for this dropping?

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Mark Settle
Mark Settle

The old Editor of DJWORX - you can now find Mark at WORXLAB

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38 Comments

  1. While I have no illusions that they’re going to relinquish their hold on the media player market peacefully, I think it would be cool to see Pioneer DJ shift into more of a live production/sequencing/sampling performance space while Denon takes up the mantle of the classic media player form factor. Pioneer has lead the way on CDJs for plenty of time, and I think shifting their focus to the as-yet-unsuccessful integration of live sequencing with traditional DJing would be a more valuable use of their time, considering they’ve been dragging their feet on any meaningful updates to their flagship media players.

    • While Pioneer’s intentions for the production market are clear, it’s an already crowded sector with players that have decades of heritage and brand loyalty under their belt. I feel that they’ll continue to dip their toe in production, but will be a major player in the DJ scene and not roll over so easily. The question is will they need to simply match Denon DJ’s Prime range, or will they have to improve on it. Matching is simple, but real innovation is scan these days.

      The Pioneer DJ brand is incredibly strong, but heads are being turned. And if the DJ industry has taught us anything over the last five years, it’s not to be complacent.

  2. Wow this shows how much Native Instruments put too many of their eggs in one basket. Native Instruments could have done themselves many, many favors by having a D2 like modular unit with a jog wheel and some other useful forward thinking features to use along with the D2, S5, or S8 that would complement the features of those units. Pioneer is like Pac Man right now. They’re chomping away at every part of the market they can to make their offerings complete. They’re beginning to remind me of Toyota.

      • While in a lot of respects I would agree with you look atthe other side. Who’s gear do you see in pictures most taken of DJ’s in DJ booths? Also people have been asking Native Instruments to compliment their attempts to bridge the DJ and production worlds with gear that will actually compliment their workflow. They need to pay attention to their clients requests more and do so. They have huge potential. Imagine a stand alone media player running Traktor DJ??? That would be amazing!!!

        • In my sphere, I’d say the split is 50/50 Pioneer and NI, with some Xone sprinkled in for good measure. Literally the only techno DJ I can think of that uses Serato is Dave Clarke. NI don’t claim to want to take over the booth. The’ve always been about complementing existing setups. If they did have any interest, they’d have built the Z4 and made it an essential bit of kit.

          • True however they don’t seem to want to be more cooperative with the likes of pioneer. For example I have the most trouble trying to connect CDJ-2000 Nexus and Nexus 2’s to Traktor. I own a pair of XDJ-700’s as well and there isn’t any HID mapping at all for Traktor. Yet I also own Virtual DJ Pro Unlimited and I can plug any of these devices in and they work with very little effort. They can do a much better job in this area if they really want to truly be a “complement to existing setups.”

  3. I think this has been leaked intentionally. Pioneer seems to be desperate to draw attention away from Denon’s Prime units as soon as possible. I think they are long away from their own answer.

    • Without a doubt, it’s a managed leak. Pioneer DJ is duck’s arse tight when it comes to launches, so this is definitely under their control. As for drawing attention away — possibly, but it’s not the sort of thing to sway masses away from an SC5000 Prime. I see it as more of a distraction than an alternative.

  5. My job is from 20 years business analyst. I am a dj just for passion (I hve some controller and TT from several brands). So I am not a fanboy neither a supporter. Just let me know a quick and sober analysis.

    Is not possible at the moment that Denin can even touch the sphere of Pioneer. They give us illusion to do but in reality they can not.

    Pioneer has his own Microsystems. They give same experience to end customer if they buy set up of 9000 euro or 345euro. Their system is modular and interchangeable. You can add one controller or you can combine.
    End customer are sure that with one usb pen can play in big club in Africa or Australia preparing in their home their set in a 399 controller of via free license rekordbox.
    You can link everything togheter or play singularity. With same user experience.
    Moreover are fast. They present and say “in stock NOW!”

    Denon: take a flagship from pioneer and add more buttons and features.
    No integration and very slave of 3rd softaware house.
    When they present (see rane) you never know when you can have. Costumer don’t like to wait.

    So at the end, for less buttons or features more, if customer choose Denon are not allowed to “join” into the pioneer “club”

    will happen also with SERATO. Rekordbox will be more and more integrated inside a lot of units, will give more flexibility inside their system and much more complex interplay.
    SERATO will be more and more in the corner of turntablism until Pioneer will decide to release 10 videos with 10 different dmc world champions with incredible scratches performance…

    • Well I think you missed a very important detail. Since InMusic works with Serato they made a very important power move. Their own “Engine” music management software plays nice with Serato and even recognizes Serato organized playlists, cue points, etc. when you plug a drive with this information into one of their players or controllers that utilizes “Engine” it recognizes it. This was so smart on their part as whatever they release running engine will allow any Serato users to “dive right in” so to speak and be able to begin playing immediately.

      • Yes but you are talking of feature not about business structure.
        Serato and inmusic are 2 different company and in term of control and integration and market share is definitely different to have own software. Moreover RB is becoming more and more present and solid.
        Just considered time needed for sync 2 company instead to do all in-house. This is a big competitive advantage.
        My point is not work better or worst but examination of busin as model

        • Yes and you are using Rekordbox as an example of how it is an integral part of their business model. I used Engine as an example of how InMusic and Denon are competing with Pioneer and Rekordbox. While Serato is its own entity at the same time Denon is tapping into their relationship with Serato which opens up more potential users to be willing to use their ecosystem since it aligns with Serato’s just from Engine being able to plaY nice with Serato’s organizing, crate, and playlist abilities.

          • Sound like inMusic and Serato fighting versus the big Enemy Pioneer :D

            But, beside Joke, I am agree with You in what You wrote. i am not saying that will not work this collaboration, i am just saying that Business model to have everything in house (considered as company value) can be an advantage instead of “collaboration” (even very deep) between 2 different company.
            But can works or also dosent works. This only the market will tell us and only the next move of Rekordbox.

            • The DJ industry is spoiling for a fight between the big players of inMusic, Serato, and Pioneer DJ. At this point and without new Traktor software and hardware, NI can only tick over on the sidelines and watch. I only hope that at the end of this boardroom based war, the customer is the winner.

              • One of the problems I realise NI have created for themselves is their obsession with trying to create systems to monetise audio packs in their DJ software, like they do with the production stuff. Unfortunately, unless they go the Serato White Label route, I can’t see it happening. Maybe if Traktor Pro 3 has a store built directly into the app…

              • NI made a proposal for “the future of sound” which could be wrong but focused in more than regular djing and its supposed evolution. The other players seem fighting for keep that market without push it to far… but don’t bringing too much into the new “possible” market. This new pad series of Pioneer controllers and Serato flip/sample vst seem moves in that direction but I don’t think NI is quiet. New maschine is the proposal but we need perspective to see that out of scope inside a bigger picture strategy IMHO.

            • If you really think about your initial statement in the beginning of your most recent response does that sound so far fetched that you felt the need to use it as a joke? I feel in a light way this is actually what is going on. InMusic is conpeting with Pioneer on the hardware end and Serato is competing with Rekordbox DJ on the software end. With “Engine” being able to utilize information from Serato prepared playlists/ crates/ drives opens up more people to use and be attracted to Denon’s products. This was a smart and strategic move by Denon and one that will pay off for them in spades in the long term.

    • With ToRaiz they didn’t keep the “in stock, Now” strategy. For the rest I’m mostly agreed for club bit not for bedroom where other players are pushing their own proposals (Serato, NI and so)
      To me the key is djing itself is evolving and the brand which better feel the change will stay, those which not probably will get buried in dust like Torq.

    • The Denon players don’t need to “work” with rekordbox. They have on board track analysis. They also have two decks per player, meaning they will be attractive to clubs with minimal space. Denon aren’t naive enough to think they can topple Pioneer, nor should they want to, but they can sure as shit make decent competition, for a change.

      • Yes is true. But is a feature by himself more in marketing that for the market position.
        Beside the technical fact that probably is very unrealistic that club wanna install only one deck. But is just my small guess.

        The point is examination of market segment. Denon can have also the most advanced player but is a black ship compared with all Microsystems pioneer that is undeniable more attractive for market.
        Denon is pointing on add more features and pioneer is pointing on completate system integration.

        If pioneer easly update flagship CDJ with more features (as will probably do) what will happen to Denon ? ;)

          • Yes, dont misunderstand me.
            I am agree on technical part and I think that Denon sc5000 is great unit and I would like to buy. The feature of one player with 2 deck is wonderful.

            My point was just (in a comparison of 2 brand overall) that also if there are great features more in the products of Denon, is hard to beat a realm of Pioneer that have a big product line (that is combinable and well integrated ) just simply add more great feature.

            I am pretty sure that this product leaked, probably will be nice and will have a perfect integration with Rekordbox and Cdj. Much less (or much less plug and play) with other brands.

            but Again, please dont misunderstand me. I am just try to analyze the brand value not single spot unit. And i am doing just for fun :) :) probably I am wrong.

  6. Awsome photoshop-fu superpowers Mark.
    About the unit, the main question is “how much?”. I think that the Toraiz SP-16 is an awesome unit, I loved it when they sent me a sample unit, but it’s a bit expensive, maybe a price adjustment may turn this unit a sold out.

  10. Desperate move by Pioneer.
    The Toraiz did not exactly take over the booths of the world.
    Same will happen to a similar concept in a new format.
    The lack of acceptance of the Toraiz has nothing to do with form factor – but with lack of skills and creativity of many DJs.
    It will be as “successful” as NI’s #futureofdjing.

    • The Toraiz range was always called out as Pioneer’s foray into the world of studio production. Hence the functionality and form factor. The fact that they’ve developed a cut down version for the DJ booth is surely a sign that there’s the demand for it.

      Who knows if it will be a success? Time will tell and if it is, you can be sure that Denon will try and copy it in a few years time.

  11. Bought lots of gear over the years, they’ve all come and gone except for a pair of black 1200 mk2s from 2007. I’ve been recently smitten by the Akai amx/afx combo for compact setups.. if Akai can deliver quality gear in the $200 level, I can’t wait what they can do at the $1.5-2k price. I’m quite certain they can give all these established brands a run for their money.

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