Memebusting — even without turntables, you’re still a DJ

Another turntable DJ purist meme has come along, and once again non-turntable owners are the target. I offer some alternative takes.

Memebusting — even without turntables, you're still a DJ

Memebusting — even without turntables, you're still a DJ

I saw this in my Facebook timeline. Groan. The first thought that came to mind was this:

Memebusting — even without turntables, you're still a DJ

…because apparently internet DJs decide who is and isn’t a DJ. This however is an alternative way to look at things:

Memebusting — even without turntables, you're still a DJ

…because I’ve seen floors cleared by DJs using turntables, and by the same measure stadiums filled with happy dancers by DJs not using them at all.

So I figured that this was more accurate:

Memebusting — even without turntables, you're still a DJ

…because it’s the happy crowd in front of you that validates you as a DJ, not the opinion of other DJs, or the gear that you use. Google “DJ crowd” and see just how pictures come up with huge crowds losing their minds to a DJ not using turntables.

The reality however is even simpler — if you’re playing a house party using djay for iPad and a controller, then you’re a DJ. If you fill your residency’s floor every weekend with CDJs, then you’re a DJ. Equally if you’re nailing a breaks set on 45s and Handy Trax, or simply spinning top 40 tunes using DVS and a using a mic more than the crossfader, then you’re a DJ. And even if you only spin tunes to yourself on your phone in your bedroom, if you feel the euphoria that happens when you nail a mix, and can imagine the vibe that a crowd gives you when you do, then you’re a DJ.

And don’t let anyone else tell you otherwise. We welcome you all.

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Mark Settle
Mark Settle

The old Editor of DJWORX - you can now find Mark at WORXLAB

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215 Comments

  1. So true. Each separate faction in the djing community keeps squabbling as to what does or doesn’t make a dj yet in the end the only thing that really matters is a rocking dance floor full of happy dancers.

    • so does having a line of people at the register at mcdonalds make you a chef? does wearing one of those ref shirts at footlocker make you a cobbler? does doing oil changes at the quickie-lube make you a mechanic, if the customers are happy?
      are there any clubs full of drunk and high people with crappy “whatever the latest fad is” taste in music?
      would you hire the guy painting the walls of your apartment to do your portrait, since he is, well.. a painter?

      • Nobody goes into a McDonald’s and tells the people working there they aren’t keeping it real by using a microwave. We know what it is.

        Nobody walks into a Footlocker and yells at the salesman for not keeping it real because they are salesman and the comparison doesn’t even make sense.

        Yes, there are a clubs full of drunk, high people with crappy taste in music. Welcome to the world. It isn’t the DJs fault for wanting to get paid.

        I would hire the guy painting my walls to paint my portrait if he was good at painting portraits. Like I would hire the DJ playing a club to play my wedding if he was good at it. Or like I would hire the producer who made a kick ass beat to DJ a club if he was good at it. or like I would hire anymore who was good at what they did to do what they are good at.

        • In total, you answered zero of my questions. You either changed them or just made up your own.
          If we don’t know what djing isn’t we cant know what djing is. Thats called the fallacy of the supresed correllative(thanks philo class i never thought i’d use)

          Mark aside, because he is a gracious host, the only people who refuse to accept that some shit just aint djing, are the ones scared to play for people with records. If youre scared, just say youre scared, and stop spitting piles of rhetoric to hide it.

          Here’s another question for you. I walk into a bar and put a dollar in the jukebox and pick some songs, and by chance there’s two other people in the bar who say, “oh i love this song” am i djing? A simple yes or no will do.

          • I didn’t ask a single question, so I’m not sure how I made up my own. I responded directly to each of your points. Your points were silly and don’t deal with actual issues wrapped up in the DJ community. I was being pretty straight about that.

            We can know what DJing is. DJing, as far as I’m concerned, is playing music from ones own collection to entertain other people for an extended amount of time in a fashion that allows the music to never stop. That’s pretty straight forward.

            in your example you aren’t DJing. You are a selecting songs that entertain people, sure, but the music will stop, you will need to keep feeding the jukebox, and you are not curating from your own collection but from someone else’s.

          • Here’s another question for you. I walk into a bar and put a dollar in the jukebox and pick some songs, and by chance there’s two other people in the bar who say, “oh i love this song” am i djing? A simple yes or no will do.

            No. You are pumping money into a machine that anyone can control. The jukebox cannot mix, beat match, determine song selection, or know if the song being played will be right for the audience.

            It’s clear that pumping money into a jukebox isn’t DJing. A DJ is a person, controlling music selection for their audience. DJing is the art of playing music to a crowd to entertain them. The gear doesn’t matter — a DJ can play music from an iPod as long as the crowd is happy. The techniques don’t matter — wedding DJs don’t do much more than blend singles without a beat match in sight. But it’s still DJing.

            There is no specification as to what DJing is, nor is there a checklist needed to attain status of DJ. And thankfully there isn’t a governing body that makes you sit a DJ exam. There NO DJ who decides who is a DJ and who isn’t, which is the whole thrust of the article.

    • yh DJWORX happy to put up the pointless articles though. Like a vinyl hiphop/funky music DJ goes to the EDM guy, “u suck u beatmatch bitch” then the EDM guy goes “I got 4 gigs this week” for the record the EDM guy can go play lady gaga records in hell and suck off a turtle

      • very true, I still have a multitude of digital controllers but never had CDJ’s … I must fix that this year.
        One a side note have you ever used any form of laser turntable ? I’ve been toying with the idea for years, but never got around to using one. What happens when they hit a cue-burned section or a minor scratch .. with 50+ year old records these things are expected and a good Technics set up will ride over most of them … just curious to find out if the laser turntables do the same.

        • I haven’t seen anything for them, other than that they exist and look kind of cool. We should try and get them in the offices and try them out.

          • Maybe I do .. but that’s not the point of the question. I collect rare vinyl and have done for more than 30 years. Occasionally I get lucky and find a MINT 45 and pay a lot for it (some get into the 5 figure range), but if I play it it immediately becomes Mint – (minus), and after 100 plays it’s graded at EX .. each time it drops a grade it halves in value. Mostly I find old radio show demo’s with a slight cueburn on the first 10-15 seconds and wondered how lasers were affected by that.

            And remember children not every turntable is for DJ’ing, in the audiophile world no one talks about technics SL’s because they are rubbish when it comes to sound reproduction, excessive wow and flutter, unwanted electrical noise ….the list is endless.

  5. The funny thing is I know a lot of DJs who have the “real DJs use turntables” mentality and yet they all use timecode vinyl. I know one DJ who actually still uses real vinyl at a lot of gigs and he never says anything. Funny, eh?

      • Its pretty cool…When asked about his Music or Art he says in a true New York accent, “Shit Man,I know kats way way Doper than the Big Name Kats,That could give a ‘Mad Fuck about making money or they own sneakers….Kats that do this cuz they cant stop,they dont know how…Those are the Kats I wanna feature on my Records and my Site….not the Bee-Gees of Turntablism,more like the Bad Brains of ‘Fuck you our Style has POWER!!!!-”
        R-A

        • Haha, that might be true :D

          I was mostly referring to the fact that it’s extremely rare to see big names like Carl Cox or Richie Hawtin make clear-cut, black-and-white statements what qualifies as real DJing and what does not.

  9. I own both so i guess I’m screwed :)

    Real DJs are DJs that are good, DJs that are not real are the crap ones, regardless of the equipment thats in front of them, and lets be honest 90% of people posting that Meme online don’t even own a turntable anyway, in fact they probably don’t even mix. i could go online and profess to be a millionaire, who the hell would know otherwise

  10. I started using cassette tapes because I couldn’t afford 1200s but by the f**k my dance floor was full! I used to buy the records then record them on tape. Did wonders for my back.

    Truth be told. You’re not a real dj unless you spin records on the radio. Hmmm what about that one.

    Really the argument is mute since you’re not a real artist and play somebody else’s music and get paid for it.

    • Haha, that’s actually a very good definition of being a real DJ.

      Keeping It Real Posse (KIRP for short reference) likes to give foam-mouthed lectures about knowing the roots of DJing, but if ones knows anything about the early history of DJing, spinning your own radio show was the real definition of being a DJ.

      Less surprisingly, this makes the KIRK very uncomfortable because most of them no longer fit the bill :D

    • Haha, that’s actually a very good definition of being a real DJ.

      Keeping It Real Posse (KIRP for short reference) likes to give foam-mouthed lectures about knowing the roots of DJing, but if ones knows anything about the early history of DJing, spinning your own radio show was the real definition of being a DJ.

      Less surprisingly, this makes the KIRK very uncomfortable because most of them no longer fit the bill :D

    • that’s interesting. Hometaping is killing music and all that. Yh we live in the age of Collating. Bloggers spotify playlists etc. DJing is about music as a shared experience and business and personality and a passion for music. And DJs tend to produce their own music after a short while. Do they need to quit DJing to become real artists. I guess some DJs are representing a culture, EDM DJs are representing their culture and so are old school hiphop DJs. I think your last point is why hashtag future of djing is a realy really good thing so we can stop thinking like that!! :) nice post

  11. In my opinion, a real DJ is someone who:

    a.) Can play on any medium
    b.) Has put in the time and effort to learn the roots of the art form as well as perfect their craft on whatever their equipment of choice is today
    c.) Knows how to play the right song, at the right time, for the right venue, crowd, etc.

    So, just because you play out regularly on CDJs or controllers doesn’t mean you aren’t a real DJ. But if you’ve never tried to manually beatmatch two records together, then you should probably do that before calling yourself a “DJ” – until then you are a human musical selector. And that’s ok too…just note there aren’t “discs” involved with that.

    • You seem to contradict yourself, and I just want some clarification. I’m not trying to be snarky, I’m genuinely curious in engaging this discussion. You say that a real DJ needs to be able to play on any medium, but then you say that if you can’t that doesn’t mean you aren’t a real DJ (which I’m assuming means you are).

      Can you have it both ways?

      • Sorry, I could have worded it better. What I think is as long as you CAN and HAVE rocked a party with wax, you don’t have to do that presently to be a real DJ. If you’ve never done it then you are merely someone who is a “musical selector” and that’s different, whether its pressing play on iTunes or pushing buttons on a controller. Some might see it as the same thing, I think they are mutually exclusive.

        • Okay. So I spin regularly at a monthly event in front of people. I spin on a laptop with a controller (in fact, my controller doesn’t even have jog wheels). I have used turntables, own a pair in fact, but have never used them at a party because

          A) the music I spin isn’t regularly released on vinyl and hasn’t been for ~15 years
          B) they are heavy as shit
          C) it adds nothing for me since I don’t scratch.

          What you’re telling me is that, even though people come to my party and dance to the music I play for them and mix, I am not a DJ? Even though I’m using a professional software, professional hardware, use EQ, loops, blend long mixes and make short cuts, and read my crowd and entertain them?

          • No based on what I said above, you ARE a real DJ because you’ve spent the time to learn how to spin records and have the skills to play on them, and you even still own turntables…which is great. I play out on CDJs these days…I keep my Techs safely tucked away at home. Those who know the foundation have earned the right of passage to use modern, arguably easier technology!

            • I see where you’re coming from. I think my issue is that if you came to a gig I was spinning, all you’d know is that I’m on a laptop without jog wheels. You wouldn’t know whether or not I learned on vinyl, and would probably judge me accordingly. Maybe you don’t, but I’d rather be judged on how well I sound, as opposed to my heart of training.

              Cause I’ve heard kids who have only used laptops and never touched CD of record and are awesome. And I’ve been driven out of clubs by how bad the vinyl dj is.

              • Good discussion and points well taken, Jared. I personally don’t judge because I don’t want to be judged, but I could also see how non-DJs / club patrons might think “where are the turntables or spinny things…what’s going on here?” Anyway, I offer two more examples to my point:

                1.) I once saw two guys, each with a Novation Twitch, tag-teaming, going back and forth, track for track. DOPE! Obviously they had song structure, beat matching, and general flow down pat. They’ve done it for years on all mediums. No hate there.

                2.) I once was opening at a club that had a fully-stocked DJ booth: CDJ-2000NXSs, DJM900, Tech 1210s, a Serato SL4 Box and an NI Audio 8 box. So options to play were CDs, Rekordbox USBs, Serato with timecode (CDJ or Techs) and Traktor with timecode (or HID) CDJs or Techs. DJ after me disturbed my last 1/4 of my set trying to remove techs, unplug stuff (including one of my channels) and move things out of the way to make room for his controller since he “didn’t know how to use any of that other stuff”. That’s not acceptable. Shouldn’t be classified as a DJ, imo.

                DJs shouldn’t judge other DJs…but putting in the years on all mediums and formats so you are well-versed and flexible is required in my mind.

                Thoughts?

                • I think it’s something that comes with time. I don’t think earning the title of DJ is the issue, it’s earning the title of good DJ, or great DJ. The problem with our discussions as a community lately is that there are so many bizarre barriers to being called a DJ at all, it’s almost as if no one is really good enough to be one. Do I need to be know how to scratch? Use vinyl? CDJs? Beatmatch? Cut? Blend? All of it? Most of it?

                  We will always judge each other, and as long as we are honest with our intentions, I think that is what matters. For example, I have a friend whose technique is great but I can’t stand what he plays. I don’t call him a shit DJ, I just recognize our tastes differ. We can still talk about DJing and never do we judge each other like that. But god, read this shit on the internet and it’s just non-stop bile.

                  The other piece of that is backups, really. I know I should be better and bring CDs or USB keys as a backup just in case the situation you describe warrants it, but I am so flexible in setting my rig up, and so prepared, that I generally feel comfortable with my rig. And lord knows I’m not bringing vinyl anywhere with me because I enjoy my back still working.

                  (Let’s keep the discussion going, but thanks for keeping it civil. Too often it just turns into trolling)

                  • How are we defining a good or great DJ? Is it a DJ that can hold his own technically or is it someone that can play the right songs when necessary and keep a crowd dancing? In that sense I would be a good DJ, but I’ll be the first to tell you that I still struggle a bit with retaining a crowd all night (I’ve only been active a few months). In my area the white crowd is by far the hardest to please. I can play all the rap songs I have in my library all day long and black people will love it, but the minute I get carried away with that in a mostly-white crowd, it’ll become a ghost town……until I change it up and play Uptown Funk (can this song die, please) and they’ll come flooding back, but you get the idea.

                    If we want to go by technicality, I can beatmatch my ass off and blend songs pretty well even with only a few months worth of DJ’ing under my belt (but I spent at least two years prior understanding the common structure of music). But when I started DJ’ing, I was stuck in a Trap/Twerk/100bpm phase and would legit clear an entire bar because I would only play 100bpm songs for a good two hours. I learned how not to do that the hard way.

                    One of my friends actually suffers from this as well. He murders anyone around my age when it comes to technicality (his mentor is Buck Rogers), but he always plays like he’s competing in Thre3style and no one wants to hear that all night at a bar. So am I a better DJ because I can adapt to a bar situation better? Or maybe it’s because I can adapt to my environment better than he can? (for the record, he doesn’t attend the same university as I do). If anything we’re both good DJ’s because we’re both good at what we do best, but I still think he’s miles better than me since he can stratch and beat juggle and do all those fancy shmancy DMC tricks that I haven’t even begin to learn (poor lil’ Numark 4Trak), but I will say that my song selection has more variety than his does. Not too many people can predict what I’m going to play the next time I play. I’ve heard him play three times, and all three times he’s played almost the EXACT same set.

                    I personally think a good DJ is someone that not only loves what they do, but can do it well. If you’re feeling lazy and using sync on two decks (I’ve been there, especially at 2am and I wanna go home), but your music selection is on point, then I don’t care. I’ve listened to people have slightly off transitions but also played really good music. Hell I’ve had a flat-out trainwreck of a transition one night. Not only did people not care at all, they didn’t even miss a beat on the dancefloor. The new song came in and they went right back to dancing. I’ve watched Deep/Future House DJ’s sync their entire set and enjoyed every minute of it because of, again, their song selection. It also helps that a lot of DJ’s I know are easy to get along with.

                    Just for lols, I’ve had a bouncer walk up to me 30 minutes into my set and say “you’re the best we’ve had in weeks”. All I played was Backstreet Boys, Rick James, Bobby Brown, “Poison”, “Stacy’s Mom”, and “Ice Ice Baby”. I’ve had a bartender tell me everyone kept saying I was a good DJ, even though NO ONE knows my stage name. Am I a good anonymous DJ?

                    • You can both be good DJs. Honestly, I think the distinction between good and great is very miniscule, and you know it when you hear it. I’m not great, but I’m good. I’ve killed a floor, I’ve packed them, etc, and I don’t know any crazy scratching techniques. I actually don’t think scratching is required to be great, or good, because it’s just another tool. All that matters is the crowd.

                      And if you’re a battle dj then you need different skills than I do. We can all be good DJs and still be different.

                    • I do think there’s a bit of error in that because I don’t think it’s fair to consider Paris Hilton a good DJ due to her being paid millions of dollars to show up at a club and pack it because of her status, and we all know she’s not up there doing anything (sometimes literally).

                    • I think the issue with that is we are assuming the basic skills we need to dj are hard to get. I’ve never heard Paris Holton dj, I never will. Is she good? I have no idea. I’m damn sure she will never be great, though. I don’t think good is a very high bar for us to meet, which is why bad is so offensive to me. Being a good dj is easy.

                    • I don’t know if I would say being a good DJ is easy. Learning basic beatmatching is the easy part. But the creativity and the knowledge it takes to be diverse and interesting isn’t something that I would say is easy.

                    • I don’t think being good is hard. I mean, it takes work and practice, you’re not gonna wake up and be a good DJ, definitely. But to learn the basics (beatmatching, mixing, etc) isn’t hard. Yes, song selection and energy flow and creativity takes time and practice, definitely. I think the bar isn’t high to hit, it just takes time, and people don’t want to wait.

                    • I agree with that, but I don’t think everyone can just simply sit down and be creative enough to actually perform well. My best friend has been doing it for five years but I’m more open than he is, even though I lean more towards hip-hop (duh, I’m black XD) and he’s better at keeping the white crowd happier than I am. But I’ve had people flat-out come up to me and tell me they like both of us, but favor me because of my song selection. Some people have it, some don’t……..that and he’s a bit stubborn lol

                    • Hey, not everyone can be a good DJ. but being a good DJ is not hard. It takes a little work and some creativity, sure, but the underlying skills are easy. I guess my point is that it isn’t hard to be good. Good isn’t a high bar, though. We shouldn’t strive for good.

                  • Yes. He could plug in a USB stick. He could insert plain burned CDs. He could pop in a Serato/Traktor Timecode CD. He could throw on a Serato/Traktor Timecode Vinyl. What he shouldn’t do is unplug one of my playing channels when there are two others free.

                    I’m opening a show tomorrow night where laptops/controllers are strictly prohibited (for DJ switchover reasons), so unless you are the headliner, its a hard no. I found that out yesterday. Its important to be able to play on anything.

  13. does anyone else remember getting though hours of mediocre/young dj’s train wrecking just to dance to the skilled headliners? i used to cringe at the thought of free parties, so long live sync! they’re usually here to dance, we’re the ones arguing about the mediums we play.

  15. I play with tables because it’s fun and a challenge..which to me is a large part of why I am in the music industry..i can see the arguments on both sides..will go on until the end of time… I look at it like this.. let’s say your playing Halo or Battlefield and you have mastered every weapon after hundreds of hours of playing.. learning techniques and strategies on how best to kill opponents and you are a true killing machine now.. then you play online with a guy or girl.. that got a code, hack or paid to get a gun or weapon that kills everyone..no skill involved..never runs out of ammo.. just point and shoot.. you’re both killing machines with the same result. But to me the journey to get to that level is what matters on an individual basis.. if you did all that practice on halo and on halo 2 you just want to buy the ultimate weapon.. fine.. but for myself it comes down to having fun.. and paying to be a killing machine isn’t any..to each his / her own..

  17. I wanna be a real dj!!
    Please can someone tell me how. Preferably the quick & easiest way to do it.
    I really don’t want to spend the next 20 years of my life practicing & perfecting the art of mixing on every possible medium. I can’t split my ears & listen to 2 different songs at the same time (sooooo confusing!). There must be an easier way. Why can’t we just count the ‘1’ on the first beat we hear?? I’ve heard good things about something called ‘sync’, but you have to first make a beatgrid. wtf?? I just wanna do it for the glory (and the chicks!!). David Guetta’s got this down & if Paris Hilton can do it, I’m sure I can too. Please help me.

  18. Are DJ’s the most insecure entertainers ever. Because these sorts of articles keep being written. Which makes it seem that way. If you are not sure whether you are a real DJ, then you’re probably not.

    You don’t see guitarist articles say “Am I a real guitarist if I don’t own a Fender Stratocaster”. Nope cos it’s a stupid question. Just like “Am I a real DJ if I don’t have turntables”. It’s a stupid question and it’s time the DJ community moved on and stopped perpetuating the myth.

    If you play pre recorded music, song by song in an order you choose them to be in you’re a DJ. You can still be a shit DJ or a great DJ or an average DJ, but you’re a DJ.

    Be proud of what you are and stop being so insecure!

    • But… Bob Dylan was publicly (and famously) called a, “Traitor”, for merely putting down an acoustic guitar and picking up an electric (a Fender Stratocaster, as it happens!), so it’s not like the world of DJ’ing has exclusive rights to all the idiots in the musical world!

  19. For me a DJ should be like for example the Hip-Hop-DJ Melo-D from the Beat-Junkies. He can perform Scratch-Music live, do Team-Routines with the Beatjunkies live, beatjuggle, makes trick-mixes most non-scratching DJs will never get and has super-dope Scratching-Skills. Oh and yeah he can rock crowds (the marketing side of DJ-ing).

    • What about all the punters and DJs who don’t like Hip-Hop and can’t stand the sound of scratching? They can all go f**k themselves, is that what you’re saying?

      What your – and many other DJ’s, for that matter – problem is, is the inability to understand the difference between a preference and a standard.

      Melo-D is no doubt worthy of admiration. You have every right and reason to *prefer* his DJing. But if you say that every DJ should be like Melo-D…well, that’s just incredibly narrow-minded and downright stupid.

      Preferring a certain way of DJing is fine. Preferring a certain kind of DJ is fine. Preferring a certain medium or gear is fine. Telling people that YOUR PREFERENCE is the only way to DJ, however, makes you look like a douce.

      • It’s the Hip-Hop battle mentality when I say this. If you want to “prefer” then prefer. And Hip-Hop to me is not just only Rap. It’s the music I like and that I play in my mixes. Grandmaster Flash wasen’t mixing only Rap back then either. So what you may call a (insert latest name coined by a writer describing a “new” music-style)-DJ is a Hip-Hop-DJ to me from a certain point-of-view. Ps: Are you doing this social justice warrior thing a lot? Does it take a lot of time?

        • Oh please…don’t start crying about some social justice warrior BS just because somebody disagrees with you. If you can’t handle differing opinions like a man, feel free to stay out of the conversation.

          However, I get what your saying about the difference of music strictly classified as Hip-Hop and music played within the Hip-Hop mentality. Hell, Bambaata rocked the house by playing Kraftwerk :D

          • You came and told me what my problems were, trying to impose your opinion as far as I’m concerned…hence the social warrior statement. I gave my opinion about what I feel is DJ-ing that’s it not more not less (and since opionions are like a..holes…).
            May the Schwartz be with you

            • As you so accurately put it, opinions are like a**holes – and that’s the very heart of this whole debate. I don’t just mean you and me, I mean the whole DJ community.

              As you said, you described what you FEEL is YOUR OPINION as to what constitutes as an IDEAL disc jockey. Fair enough, we’re all entitled to our preferences.

              But here’s the thing; the debate is not about opinions. Opinions are irrelevant. The whole debate is about wether there is a clear-cut, black-and-white determinator of which makes a “real DJ”.

              I personally feel that such determinator doesn’t exist (or at the very least is extremely hard to define) and the whole debate is stupid and a cancer in the DJ community – but that also is beside the point.

              The point is, that when DJs say “this is the kind of DJ I like the most” it often comes across as “this is the only kind of DJ I acknowledge to be a real DJ”.

        • If you continue searching far away Bronx djs you will find Jamaican ones whom maybe didn’t scratch but made “gear~ism” from King Tubby to Kool Herc… So maybe controllerism is a modern form of dub?
          Searching for the essence oneself build bridges not gaps.

          Jm2c and peace.

      • Didn’t Dejaying as a art form start from hip-hop? Before all folks were doing were playing records. Didn’t record manipulation start from hip-hop? Things have branched out and grown but never forger where it started.

        • Well, I think “turntablism” would be a more accurate term. DJing itself dates back to late 1940’s when radio channels started replacing live bands with recorded music.

          Either way, this has nothing to do with the original topic.

          • “turntablism”? Isn’t that the same as record manipulation? Which is what I said. Now we’re manipulating MP3’s instead of vinyl. Nothing to do with the original topic but everything to do with where everything came from. Even folks who hate scratching need to thank the original scratch DJ for they are the ones who introduced record manipulation to everyone, even the folks who don’t scratch. Hip-Hop Dj’s were the first to scratch, blend, almost everything. Its was more than just scratching. Now we have folks dissing the very thing that made it possible for them to do what they enjoy. Just seems a bit disingenuous.

            • This is starting to get highly academic, but I assume most people would agree to these definitions;

              DJing = Playing recorded music without interruptions as a means of entertainment.

              Turntablism = Using a turntable as in instrument in order to perform audible tricks such as scratching.

              Record manipulation = beat matching, pitch bending, phrasing i.e. seamless mixing techniques.

              According to these definitions there’s no dispute that DJing dates back to late 1940’s radio broadcasting. Likewise, turntablism can be dated to 1970’s Hip-Hop scene. Record manipulation, on the other hand, is a bit trickier to pinpoint. I’d say it goes fifty-fifty between the 1970’s Hip-Hop and Disco scenes. After all, Francis Grasso is commonly acknowledged as the father or modern mixing techniques such as beat matching and slip-cueing.

              Anyway, now that we got the history pissing contest out of the way, let’s get back to original topic, shall we? ;)

              I did not mean to diss Hip-Hop or its historical significance, far from it – I’m a avid Hip-Hop man myself. The point, however, was that zykill’s original message came across a lot like every DJ should be a scratching Hip-Hop DJ. No matter the historical significance, it’s just not everybody’s cup of tea. As the conversation progressed, it became apparent that it wasn’t exactly what zykill meant.

  21. Hate is born of fear and a *lot* of people fear change …and the overwhelming majority of this apparent hatred of all non turntable-based forms of DJ’ing seems to be coming from people who are blindly clinging to their Technics.

    QED.

    • yh my theory is no-one is clinging to their technics, they are always on ebay and people are selling their vinyls, it’s an economic and space in the house based reality. But then whos to say some 21 yo DJ with some spunk in them doesn’t buy the decks, and the vinyl, and like he ain’t hating on controllers either cos he’s using the new NI one, or the Akai AMX, it’s like a circle, that spins around full circle, at a constant speed controlled by a magnet

  22. can’t agree more :) both thumbs up!

    I’m DJing since 1991, I started on vinyl of course, bought my first pair of Technics in 1995, but I havent use vinyl for decades. I think I’ve seen and used almost every kind of DJ gear, and I guess I’m still a DJ ;)

  23. Just play and have fun and if someone calls you are a real DJ or a fake DJ, who cares? I am not interested in their opinion. I focus on people who enjoy the music and have a good time. Never understood people who spend so much time and energy telling the whole world what they think. They must be idiots to to think their comments will make a difference. But ofc that is my opinion and who cares about that.

  25. A DJ plays to the crowd, plays the right music for the right moment and understands how to manipulate the energy in the room. It doesn’t matter which gear is being used.

  26. Not everyone is a DJ if you have a crowd in front of them.
    I let my friend rap in front of the crowd and he doesn’t know the first thing about djing..
    A real DJ doesn’t question wether he is or isn’t a real DJ.
    A real DJ doesn’t envy or disrespect others are are following the same artform.
    A real DJ does not worry about what songs to play or what people think of the songs he or she plays.
    A real DJ uses whatever equipment is at hand.
    A real DJ has a passion for music and respects all genres
    A real DJ doesn’t need to compete against other Djs to gain respect.

    In the words of Gandalf the Grey Wizard:
    ” A real DJ is never late ,nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to.”

    A real DJ also has a sense of humor too ;)
    Cheers!

      • So why are you using Serato then?

        Seriously dude…you’re not the sharpest tool in the shed, are you? Feel free to prefer vinyl as much you like, but if you’re going to make a statement like you better make sure you’re not seen within a mile of a laptop.

        However, instead you kindly point us to your homepage for everyone to see photos of you using Serato. You do realize, that with Serato you’re spinning 100% digital, don’t you? Serato doesn’t magically transform your MP3 into real vinyl. Like it or not, in technical terms Serato is just another form of digital controllerism.

        • no, no, no, no, no, no it’s not.
          dvs is using a turntable with a direct drive motor, and a needle.
          riding a Segway scooter, is not just another form of bi-pedal locomotion because you’re standing on two feet and moving your neck in the direction you want to go.
          surfing isn’t the same as going down a water slide.
          playing a video game with your madcats controller isn’t the same as doing donuts in a parking lot at 3 am.
          I swear sometimes I think there’s a whole generation of people refusing to accept “nothing ventured, nothing gained”
          the potential rewards from having a turntable is the setup of a dj rig are numerous, and so are the potential drawbacks. the record, be it timecode or music, is right there in front of you “moving”
          you can touch it and make the output better, OR you can touch it and make the output worse. potential gain equals potential risk.
          software and controllers have removed much of the risk, and therefore have also removed much of the potential gain.

        • Last week a friend was arguing with me about how time-code sounds better than just a controller. WTF? lol. He said that the needle is heavier and it makes the sound better. You cant make this stuff up. I told him that all the record is playing is a time-code signal, and that the quality of the sound of both instances is handled by the internal sound card. He wasn’t having it and my dumb as was arguing with him for at least 5 minutes over it. Some folks just fill in blanks with whatever they think it is. And then argue with folks who actually read up that stuff on a technical level.

          • Quality of audio interface and the colour of mixers circuit path. I usually use the Wolfson DACs in my CDJs because I personally find the a bit more crisp than my DJM 850. Even when I use the DJMs soundcard I find that the mixers’ circuitry adds a low end warmth that my Z2 never had, but on that note, my old S4 never had the warmth that my Z2 did. Personally I find that a .WAV played off a Wolfson DAC from a CDJ doesn’t sound much different than when I play one off a Tech 12, save a couple pops and some hiss from old timecode.

          • Same tt, same needle, same soundcard, and the noise from the timecode is much louder when connected to laptop running vdj than when connected to ipad running djplayer.

            • We’re not talking about the differences in software. Nothing to explain because no one said that an ipad running djplayer sounds the same as a laptop running vdj. Were talking about timecode vs a controller running the same software, on the same machine. Got it?

    • “A real DJ does not worry about what songs to play or what people think of the songs he or she plays.”

      – I’d say that being a DJ is the exact opposite. I have a friend thats stuck in time and plays music from 1998-2004. He doesn’t worry about what people think. He should, he’s a sorry DJ. He gets a crowd because there isn’t any other show in town.

      • you friend picked a bad era in music, after 1997 things got really wack especially in urban music. i suggest he plays something from 93-97 else i wont go to his how lol

          • modern electronic dance music started in the 70s with kraftwerk

            all this edm nonsense is a wack representation and recreation of original dance music, hardstyle is white ppls music, when house lost its soul and started to get boring and unoriginal, again that era is a bad era in music in general but thats prob also cause the mp3 revolution started and labels stopped promoting original artists by playing it safe to avoid more financial loss.

            but thats just my opinion

            • I thought Popcorn was the first electronic song. Anyway, if a person gets stuck in a (narrow) genre, their audience only gets smaller. It’s wise to pay attention to what trends are happening for more mass appeal, but true greats tap into what moves them deeply, appeal to what people like, blend those things in s new way and share that with the world.

              • thats why i dont go to clubs anymore unless there is a special gig, the last gig i went to was by DJ Shadow & Cut Chemist, they can play what they like without having to fear being fired.

                I think the avareage DJ is too scared to take risks just to keep the crowd moving, the average music a DJ plays is here today, gone tomorrow.

                A DJ is a true succes if he can play what he likes without having to worry about the crowd response and still get the dancefloor packed, as soon as a DJ has to adapt his music to the taste of the crowd then he just an employer and can be replaced by anyone.

                The Egyptian Lover still gets booked around the world and he plays exactly what he wants, neveer will he play something out of his comfort zone, thats is called originality and not a sheeple DJ, im guessing youre a sheeple who follows music trends that will fade away faster than the hula hoop craze

  27. Great last sentence. If you are playing good music in the mix to two people then that’s Djing. But that’s what the gold 1210 in the meme is a metaphor for. It’s a metaphor for good music. Music that wasn’t made entirely on a windows laptop with crack software (another metaphor.) Music with a bit of soul. Everyone is a DJ until you only let them base their sets on music with soul and flavour!

    • Also, just had a thought. I use a mixtrack pro II. If I had better equipment (whatever that may be) that would make me a better DJ. If I had a pair of technics, that 100% would take my shit to the next level. But I play great tunes, so I ain’t hatin cos it’s quite a lot to do with your passion for tunes yaknow

      • Technics won’t make you a better DJ, nor will it take you to the next level. There is almost no level you can’t reach with a Mixtrack Pro and some creative mapping that you can reach with a Technics. The only difference is wax spinning on a platter.

        • technics you can keep for life without having to upgrade, the mixer will be upgraded..i doubt you keep your controllers the way they are for the next 10 years, they come and go, soon no more laptop is needed then ppl want to ditch the laptop controllers for the next standalone controller but they wont ever have a solid spinning platter like technics 1200 or they probably won’t have any jog wheels. Whats the fun to have nothing to spin?

          • I’ve been using my Novation Twitch on and off for years. If I wasn’t in the business of getting gear to review I’d probably still be using it regularly. I know plenty of people still using an original release of the S4 or s2. You like technics, that’s fine. So do plenty of other people. But I have a lot of fun spinning on my s8.

        • I don’t know about all that. There are things I learned using turntables (and I don’t care what brand you’re talking about) that I would never have learned otherwise. The same can be said for using certain mixers and hardware samplers like SP1200s and MPCs.
          Sometimes its about the quirks and limitations of using actual vinyl, sometimes it the quirks of 12″ platter, or the motor, or the tonearm, the mixer layout or whathaveyou, but that type of stuff WILL make you a better DJ. Just like learning new technology will also make you a better DJ.
          The bottom line is, anybody trying to use equipment to validate or substantiate their skills is missing the point.
          One more thing I think people get twisted is that large crowd = good DJ. That may be true for DJs that only consider themselves delivery people for other people’s artistic expression, but for those of us who actually try to express ourselves through the artform, skills and the ability to express are usually more important than a large crowd.

          • I didn’t say that turntables are not useful tools. They are. They definitely are. I learned to beatmatch on turntables and when I teach people to DJ I teach them on turntables. My point was simply that using turntables does not mean you will be better, or even good at all. The idea that using turntables means you’ll be good is laughable.

            There are quirks to using turntables, and MPCs and any tool, and learning around those quirks makes you better at using those tools. Definitely. If you’re an expert at the MPC you will be able to build a better beat than someone else on an MPC. But using an MPC will not make your beats better. That’s my point.

            And you’re 100% right. Having a large crowd does not make you a better DJ. In fact, having a large crowd makes our jobs a TON easier. It’s easier to keep energy up when everyone in the room has a lot of energy. Spinning to 15 people is a lot harder, especially when you don’t want to just play the same songs all the time. I agree with you 100% there. All I meant was that our job is to entertain the crowd, in the end. And it is. It’s a lot harder to do that while respecting the artform, and using skill to express those ideas. The ones who can do that toe that line of greatness. I try and do that. My only point is the tools are not important. It’s the results.

      • Just my opinion… It’s never been about the gear you have, it’s about what you can make the gear do. Your timing, your mixing, little tricks here and there or a certain way that you use an efx chain, like a custom macro (I often use The Mouth for my Mic line), to create an unique sound…
        But yes, I do agreed with you on a certain level, not necessarily about Technics “taking you to the next level”, but the sound from one piece of hardware sounds different from another. A hardware mixer with a soundcard generally sounds warmer and has more of a “crunch” than a controllers’ soundcard. It’s the difference between an audio interfaces’ output and a DAC routed through the circuit path of a mixers channel. The AC or audio interface takes on the colour of the mixers circuitry. It’s the reason why the DJM 900 and the Xone:92 are so popular.

  29. DJ is a person who rides on the music and creates something new from 2 or more tracks.
    I never called anyone a DJ, because can beatmix 2 songs in every 5-6 minutes, with a 20-40 sec transition.
    It does not matter what kind of equipment been used.
    I really “like” those ‘Mom’s favorite’ persons with a gold/platinum bankcard, thousands in gear and lack of any talent….. there are millions of these.
    Others started as drug dealers, I know Tiesto was an extasy dealer in the mid 90’s, even his name comes from it.
    Both types all I can do to feel pity for them and their crowd.

    • That’s not a fact.

      But you’ve added a really fascinating qualifier there. You didn’t say “using” you said “changing.” So DVS is out, right? The only DJs that matter use CDs and vinyl? It’s only way to be a DJ? Cause what about all of those DJs who use DVS? They aren’t changing discs.

      • I used the word “fact” more as a phrase of speech but your point is well taken.

        “The only DJs that matter use CDs and vinyl?”

        I didn’t say anything about those who “matter”, you’re spinning what I said to make it easy to attack here…

        and I would certainly say that if you are using a DVS you are using vinyl, no?

        but you raise an interesting question and I think that was one of the reasons DVS was hated by many for so long.

        I think we can all agree that a performer on DVS is far less interesting to watch perform than a more traditional type DJ with CD’s or crates of vinyl.

        To me a guy like RJD2 is the epitome of the term DJ. Hearing and watching that man perform is amazing and fully represents the term DISC JOCKEY as he wildly jockeys vinyls on 4 separate turntables like a mad scientist.

        • there is no such thing as “vinyls” its called vinyl records, you dont call cds plastics right? hes spinning plastics

          i agree that a dj can only be a dj when spinning a disc, without a disc its called controllerist

          • I don’t understand clinging on to purist literal semantics. Let me give you an example — Carl Cox started life on vinyl, moved to CDJs, and is now using a Traktor Kontrol S8. His performance is still identical, from tracks to techniques. He’s a DJ regardless of technology, and is selecting the right tracks for his crowd, mixing them and the right time etc. And I imagine that the crowd loves him just the same regardless of technology — he’s still DJ Carl Cox on turntables, CDJs, or controllers.

            It’s time to move past DJ standing for disk jockey, just as a writer no longer is exclusively reserved for a pen and paper, or photographer being in the realm of exposing film to paper with chemicals. We are more than our designated titles now. DJs do way more than literally spin disks.

            • We cling to those semantics, because we know, even from your own example “started on vinyl” that for the most part, the people doing anything of note with gear other that tts, are doing stuff that..they learned on tts. So like in the dmc video you linked above, to truly know what people think about it, we’d all want to know if he learned how to do all those things on tts, and then brought those skills to the controller.

              • The danger here is to let new people think that they are going to acquire a high skill level, solely on or beginning on a controller. Thats a great approach to sell them, but anyone who been around for a while will know better, and thats why people visit this site, to learn from other’s exprience.

            • to be fair if he started now on a controller he wouldn’t be famous cause everyone can do that, he got famous on vinyl and moved on from that, just like tisto and a lot of others got famous on turntables. im sure he still has thousands of records

              there is a difference in ppl starting out with only controllers, those are not DJs, and never will be.

              matter of opinion, but if you cant mix on 2 turntables you shouldnt be called a DJ

              • Nobody, even Carl Cox would agree with your statement. No, Carl Cox didn’t become famous because he started on turntable. He got famous by building a reputation, play hard days in and out. Got a good manager and team behind him.
                Read about him and research his story.
                No, Carl Cox didn’t get all his gigs because he shows up and tell the club owner I have 1200’s. No, he showed up, pack the place and rocked it.
                Nowhere does he says “I got famous because I was spinning vinyls” NOWHERE.
                Every DJ’s who started in the 80’s/early 90’s had no other alternative but turntables anyway (until CD’s started to creep in). You put the same alternative we have today back then, it would be a different result: each DJ’s would have a choice to choose what they feel is best for them.
                Older DJ’s used turntable because for most of the beginning of DJing culture it was the DEFACTO piece; simple as that.

                And again, nobody gets famous for the piece of equipment they use, even turntablist themselves; they got famous for their skills, tricks and advanced abilities on said equipment. If that’s even close to be a fact then I’m famous and every DJ who owns a pair or have DJ a party on 1200’s are famous. But wait! 95% of all these turntable DJ’s are NOT famous. They may be known in their block or cities and what not, but not close to have the “famous” title attached to them.

                Heck, Zedd got famous because he makes tracks, not because his fans and followers care that he DJs on Tracktor Kontrol S4. Actually more famous then Carl Cox. Get it? He never used a turntable but he’s famous. Now, I couldn’t careless what you think of Zedd, that’s not the point of the debate. I care about pointing the obvious facts of the DJ realm in the present giving DJ’s many choice and weapons to rock a party.

                I’m sorry for everybody who believe that every DJ were to be performed equally on the same equipment.
                FAIL all the time because even turntables manufacturers wouldn’t stand and backing you up on that!

        • No, we can’t all agree on your point, because I definitely don’t agree. But I don’t go to clubs to watch to DJ perform. I go to clubs to dance, and the DJ either moving records from a platter or CDs from a slot add nothing to that. Their song selection, and the energy of said songs is what makes me want to dance.

          And you did say “Fact is you are not a DISC JOCKEY if you aren’t changing DISCS”

          Which, to me, says that if you are spinning on anything that isn’t vinyl or CDs in any way, you are not a DJ. That’s exactly what you’re saying. I think that using DVS is DJing, just like I think spinning on controllers and hell, if you’re good, iPods is DJing. But I just want to dance.

    • Again, has any DJ really referred to themselves as a disc jockey? It’s an old term that was shortened to DJ and now is a generic term for people who play tracks one after another to a crowd. Discs really have nothing to do with it any more. Ask any crowd, and regardless of technology, they’d say that the person playing music is a DJ.

      • But see maybe its just in ca, but i get/hear comments all the time about the gear, and this is at corporate convention type stuff. To paraphrase, its usually something like, “oh im so glad you use real turntables instead of one of those toy yhings” or “the guy we had last year one if those little toy things”

      • Exactly. And for example, “albums” are called that because way back in the day many records used to come as a set of several records packaged in an actual album (like a book), but yet today a CD or even a digital download is still called an “album” even though the term has long lost its connection to its original definition.

      • You could ask a crowd any number of things and get some interesting responses but doesn’t make them correct.

        To answer very bluntly YES. I believe thousands of DJ’s have considered themselves disc jockeys and have not only done the title justice but creatively expanded it beyond normality while still maintaining what the title implies.

  31. I started on turntables.. Had decent access to vinyl and turntables during the early part of my dj journey. Things then took a turn and I had to continue learning my craft on a laptop if I wanted to continue at all.. Eventually I was able to get a proper mixer with the help of my friends. I still couldn’t afford turntables though, so I made a conscious decision to get something that had cues and would allow me to do the absolutely necessary transport functions..

    It changed my workflow necessarily, I wasn’t able to scratch or do things of that nature, and I wasn’t able to cue the way I was accustomed to in the beginning. But I was able to improve my skills in a few key areas such as gain staging, and EQing.

    Recently, I got access to a high end pair of multimedia CD decks. Having never actually stopped at that waypoint in my education I’m having to learn old skills all over again. Which is very pleasing.

    As I’m sure some would remember.. I abhor dogma.. of any sort… This is no exception. I imagine people will fall back on any qualifier which will make them feel better about their position..

    To me though, I find one is a DJ if they simply have the passion and will to artistically mix multiple songs together for the enjoyment of the self or others.

    To sum up.. yes, I started with a pair of technics in front of me.. I didn’t cease being a DJ when I had to make do with a purely laptop/digital workflow. I don’t think owning any specific piece of equipment makes one a DJ, though I do feel that DJs are at a SERIOUS creative disadvantage without a physical summing device (AKA Mixer). Finally.. A person isn’t a DJ simply because they find themselves in front of an audience.. But a true DJ can absolutely keep the energy moving when placed in front of one.

    • Also, now that my collection is kept as a primary location on SSD this applies less but I always found it interesting that people glossed over the fact that HDDs are physically disks. whether or not you are “changing them”.. You are jockeying a disk when you keep your media on HDD.

  32. as with any othe creative endeavor, “having something to say” is necessary. Having expert knowledge of ms word doesn’t make you a writer. Knowing how to play songs for people, or having the gear to do so, isn’t nearly as important as having songs you love and want to share.

    • And please stop saying bs about having a crowd = must be good. Take the booze away and see how long your crowd sticks around. People will pack all kinds of clubs for all kinds of reason other than music.

  34. I think the only thing that can be CERTAIN and is 100% true FACT regarding this topic, is that being a DJ means different things to different people and there will never be a specific definition that one can lock down on the title, it is very fluid.

  35. Disk:

    a : (usually disc) a phonograph record

    b : a round flat plate coated with a magnetic substance on which data for a computer is stored

    Jockey:

    a person who operates or works with a specified vehicle, device, object, or material

    better keep all your music on magnetic HDD digi people ;)

  36. the turntablist crowd needs to accept its role in making a mess of djing. So much copying and formulaicness(?) This is doing just as much damage to the art of djing as cheerleaders playing premixed sets, and those big names tablists that were involved in this should step up and address this side of it, too.

    • remember when beat-juggling meant having a great touch/feel for the turntables/needles, and the ability to, with a flick of the wrist, spin the record back to exactly the right spot in front of the sample??
      now they just stand there, staring into the gopro, with that smug look on their face like they are doing something amazing, and wait for the loop to come back around.

  37. Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.
    So no memebusting at all. Both sides will continue to side for their opinion…

    • Still a DJ. I don’t scratch and I cannot scratch however I have been a DJ for almost four years and have three residencies. I have worked hard to get to where I am and I do this for a living.

        • Yes I own and embrace all forms of DJ performance. I use CDJ’s, I have a Stanton ST-150 turntable with a sizable vinyl collection, and I also have controllers. Throw it in front of me and I’ll make it happen.

          • you cant even scratch wih all that gear, i learned to dj with belt driven turntables and a crappy mixer, another example of no talent needed if u want top be a dj these days

              • Scratching is “proof” it says “I’m in control, I can do anything I want up here. It says hey look at me I’m doing this LIVE, right now, no recordings no pretending.”

              • In the past, you wrote that scratching was the benchmark by which we tested software–your words.
                So why now, all of a sudden, you’re saying that scratching is only some small part of what we do. If it is the benchmark to test the abilities of the software, it can certainly be the benchmark of the human as well, can’t it.

                  • Apologies for the late reply – I took a short holiday. So here’s your answer guys.

                    Like it or not, while being a hard skill to master, scratching really is just a small part of the wider DJ world. And the vast majority of DJs don’t scratch because their chosen genres don’t require it to be part of their performance. Just because they don’t learn to scratch doesn’t mean that they are lesser DJs. Are you saying that (insert any legendary non-scratch DJ name here) is a poor DJ even though they fill floors and have done for decades?

                    But here’s the thing — this in no way whatsoever equates to the technical ability of software to handle the necessary functions to convert either mechanical movement of controller jog wheels, or the finer points of timecode conversion. They’re not even close to being linked. Scratching in this context is the technique best used to test this ability. In my case, my skills are more than good enough to test latency, drift, and other acknowledged benchmarks. I don’t need to win DMC to know if a slow drag causes audio breakup, and can test latency with a simple clean chirp.

                    And this, although quoted entirely out of context, was the meaning of my words, but everyone knew that anyway. So I hope that TruthMustHurt and Lestweforget and their numerous aliases are happy with that explanation. If you guys need any more clarification, perhaps you can stop hiding and have a proper conversation with me instead. ;)

              • Sheesh, of course they’re not. Fatboy Slim so whack, he don’t scratch. And hiphop so real it don’t grammar. Oh wait, more people have danced to Fatboy Slim alone than they ever have to all the world’s turntablist performances combined…

            • O.k. you’re entitled to your opinion and I respect that however I call B.S. on it at the same time. Why don’t you ask any one of my listeners if I have no talent? You may listen and not like my style or what I put together however that doesn’t mean I have no talent. I have plenty of gigs you can come to and ask each and every one of them what they think? I’m on Soundcloud. Please feel free to have a listen? I’m happy to check you out as well.

            • Dude, what are you on about? The mix DJ or if you prefer, the transition DJ predates the turntablist or scratch DJ. The art of beat matching started with disco… that’s before Grand Master Flash. Scratching doesn’t define the skill of a DJ, it defines a genre.

  39. The debate to end all debates, I can’t see this one ever ending. Any more than my “real” musician friends continue to argue that we’re talentless fakes who ride off the back of other’s hard work.

    Personally, I feel like I’ve cleared as many floors as I’ve filled (sometimes on the same night), and I have to agree with the “crowd” meme. Like wine, art and books, for me it boils down to delivering a consistent product to your audience.

    Whether you play live sax over your set, chop-out, mash-up, scratch like a dog or heck, even put on a mix tape and go home – if the crowd enjoys it, I argue you’ve done your job. (the chances of a hands-up moment with a mix-tape is close to zero, but you know what i mean).

    There’s no doubt the theatre of a great turntable-ist adds to the experience (I wish I had the skills), but I’ve watched Anyo Castro work the mixer like a madman and it’s equally entertaining in a different way.

    Every great DJ I’ve spent time with has always said the same thing – it’s about finding a like minded (or at least open minded) group of people, and interacting with them through the choice and delivery of music.

    Funnily the same is true of live musicians – to paraphrase Clinton “it’s the music, stupid”.

  40. Imagine computer/robot horses, that through software, all of the quirks- easily startled/distracted, getting injured, getting spooked, just being tired, etc. all the things that a horse does because it’s alive, and not a robot. imagine all those attributes that bring chance into the picture, and therefore need a person riding and actively adjusting in many ways to cope with the nuances. So now we have the picture of the robot horse, where software is doing the “thinking” of how to handle the track and the competition with all the other horses, and the robotic machinery is doing the physical work.
    Now put a human being sitting there on the horse for the entire race, who now has only one job, “dont fall off” and you meet this human being after the race, and he proudly professes himself to be “a jockey” what might you think about him or say to him?

    • Except the computer is not DJing for you. I don’t just press play and the computer does all the work while I look cool, or whatever. It isn’t thinking about how to handle the song or the mix at all.

      The analogy doesn’t work in any way. In your example, if you remove the person from the race the race still continues exactly as it does before, just without a person. If I set my laptop up on stage, plug in my controller and walk away there’s still no music. If I put iTunes on shuffle, or Traktor on Autoplay or whatever, then there are so very many things inherent to DJing that can’t happen because there’s no person.

      • The computer does many of the difficult aspects For You, and you know it. Hop up there and jump to some cue points without a computer then, if the computer isnt djing for you. Or better yet, show me a loop, can You do that with a record? Its a lot more difficult than pushing a button.
        whats worse is the direction (which is counter to what we all thought would happen) in which the computer is pushing us creatively. Continually further narrowing and limiting because we are basing the creative side on the functions in the software.

        • Of course the computer does difficult things for me. I never said it didn’t. But DJing isn’t cue points, and it isn’t loops. I don’t need loops or cue points to DJ. They make things easier, sure. All I need is music, and arguably some way to manipulate it.

          But the computer isn’t restricting my creativity at all. The tools the software gives me are just tools. They allow me quicker access so I can use music differently. If I don’t have access to cue points, or loops, or effects, or slicers, or flux mode, or flips, it’s not that I can’t DJ. It’s just that I’m much more limited in my output.

          But once again, the computer isn’t DJing for me. It’s making DJing easier so I can focus on more difficult tasks.

          • “Of course the computer does the difficult things for me” hey I like that. I’m going to leave that here for everyone else to see, giving you full credit of course. So if the computer is doing the “difficult” things for you, why exactly do I need you? If its already doing the “difficult” things, I think I’ll just go ahead and let it do the easy things too.

            • Wait… what? The computer can’t do the things I need to be there for. How does the computer read a crowd? Or pick songs? Or… I dunno, mix accurately? You know what it can do for me? Math. That’s all it does. Math is all that beatmatching is.

              So yes, the computer does the math for me. It doing the math allows me to loop. Will it know where to loop? Of course not. It allows me to use rhythmic effects without dialing in a ms value to correspond to the BPM (once again… math).

              That allows me to, y’know, DJ, and mix, and blend, and control my dance floor and the songs I’m playing. The computer can’t do that. It might eventually one day be able to do something like that, combining things like Kinect, floor sensors, various temperature gauges and trial and error with actual songs, but it’s nowhere near that now and that requires having a DJ there.

              As far as I see it, the music part is the easy part. It’s easy cause I enjoy it, and it’s fun, and there’s value to the dance floor. The math part is annoying, time consuming, and distracting. But without it I’m restricted, more or less, to just two decks and a mixer without the ability to create any added value for my sets.

              Are there any other statements of mine you want to take completely out of context that I can spend time defending? I’m 100% down to continue talking about this stuff.

              • I didnt take it out of context at all. You meant it and admitted it.
                Now youve gone and admitted that only reading the crowd needs to be represented numerically and the computer can do that too. count the people on the dance floor, denote that next to each song, the computer will do the rest.
                The math part is annoying, hahahahah you mean the part where you listen to the new track in the headphones and match it up and wait for the perfect moment to add it, and you know the perfect moment to add it because you’ve been listening to it in the headphones and are excited about it, that boring part…..? Oh yea just staring at the screen and finding any large red blob to drop it on is way better

                • I really can’t even tell if you’re being sincere anymore. I didn’t say that computers CAN read a crowd or represent them numerically. I presented a possibly hypothetical that may one day come to pass as technology becomes more powerful, but isn’t there yet and hence the DJ is still needed in a room to… read the crowd. Or did I not say that? I’m not sure if you’re reading what I’m writing.

                  I’m all down to have these discussions, and even to disagree like an adult, even if it comes down to the dreaded “agree to disagree” but at least discuss with a modicum of integrity. You seem to have fun putting words in my mouth and taking my statements out of context and I guess that’s what the internet is for. But for real, this is just going in circles.

  41. If today we DJs are still in a forum throwing different terminology, some made up on the spot as being typed, it is because the DJ industry never have a unify body of professional laying, overseeing and controlling the core business itself. If that body already exist then I never heard of them and as it seems, they don’t have enough power and leverage. Doctors, lawyers, designers, architects, magicians etc… have voted members and boards to approved terms and definitions within their industry. We, in the DJ industry only have one term which depends on who you ask, gives you a different answer; the sad part is, just like this thread, people make up their mind on what DJ means and totally ignore the actual meaning written in the dictionary.
    Most new DJ’s themselves don’t even know what the dictionary defined them as; they don’t care.
    You can’t redefine or change the meaning of what a “doctor” or “carpenter” or any well-defined industry with guidelines and structure as you wish. OK! you can but people within that industry whom are proud of it, what it stands for and already agreed on what it means based on its set term and definition will just tell you to get lost with your new made up crap opinion.

    But look in this thread alone, you can see how none of us DJs can sit and agree on what the term DJ means; all we do is redefine it as we feel and see fit in our eyes then walk around with it as FACTS. Yes, that’s what most do.
    Name me one other established industry where its members argue over its meaning for 30 years and counting? there are maybe others but not quite as lame as us DJs. sad face :-(

    • Turntablist = A guy that uses his turntable like an instrument and who is maybee also a DJ
      DJ = A guy that plays music from other people and who is performant in marketing (reading the crowd)

      • Zykill, I’m pretty sure some will agree and some will not.
        It is the first time I’ve read the definition of a DJ as written in your comment. However, since there are so many definitions, I can’t even argue yours lol; hence why I wrote my initial comment above :-)

    • Hah! The defintion of carpenter has had the #(-)€|< changed out of it in recent years, to the delight of unskilled labor, and at the peril of true journeymen and building's quality.

      • Well, good to know. I mean, didn’t that change had to go some sort of bodies/group to agree and designate the new definition as the official one though?

        • No it was changed by people that didnt want to pay a true professional for carpentry work. Subsequently, there is a lot of very shoddy work being done, and being overpaid for.

          • “Subsequently, there is a lot of very shoddy work being done, and being overpaid for.”
            Huhmmm, sounds identical to what’s been going on with some DJs LOL!

            • Indeed.
              The public is now learning, as all djs learn, that it’s cheaper in the long run to just buy the good equipment first, instead of being a cheapskate.

  42. A key situation in this never-ending argument is that people just choose a part in time the DJ culture started. I mean totally ignoring history as it went. Or maybe they don’t really know the history at all? That could be too.
    Cause how you are going to argue or establish that if a DJ can’t scratch he’s not a DJ? history would prove you wrong then. Wait, let me rephrase this: HISTORY PROVES YOU WRONG! some of you only think DJing started with Kool Herc. Shoop, some even didn’t know about Kool Herc, so they start it with Grand Master Flash.

    Let’s put history in perspective.
    * The term and embodiment of what a DJ does was coined in the 1935 by Walter Winchell. As history puts it, he was the first to make a set on the radio going from songs after songs (without them being actually tempo-sync transitions).
    * Fast forwarding to 1943, Jimmy Saville was the first to have a DJ dance party where he was playing Jazz records at Loyal Order of Ancient Shepperd in Otley, England.
    * In 1947, Saville was the first DJ to use two turntables in a live setup at a club to continuously play records for a crowd. (Again, without them being actually tempo-sync transitions)
    * In the 1950’s American radio DJs start to rise and be known to the public. The top 40 format was then introduced in part because of radio DJ’s influence on having records played repeatedly and becoming hits.
    * 1960’s saw even more DJ involvement and best of all DJ-targeted equipment. Around the same time American DJ Francis Grasso popularized beat-matching at Sanctuary Nightclub in NY.

    NOW PAUSE: See, for some, without proper history background they believe that beat-matching started with Hip-Hop! WRONG!

    * 1973 saw the early crop of life of Hip-Hop music in the street (not on the radio yet). DJ Kool Herc develop the “Mixing” techniques of cutting two identical records back and forth and create extension on the go.

    NOW, ANOTHER PAUSE! see Kool Herc developed and pioneered the “Mixing” techniques, NOT what a DJ was or (still is). The term DJ was coined, performed and put in effect in other ways for almost 38 years before the “Mixing” techniques of Kool Herc.

    * 1975 Grand Wizard Theodore invented scratching BY ACCIDENT. You hear that? BY ACCIDENT. That’s funny but cool though cause some of the best thing in life happens by accident and unexpected!

    Now that we’ve got to the “SCRATCH” part. I got this question and my own answer to it: How you gonna start defining DJing by scratching and blindly eliminates its first 40 years of existence without it ever exisiting?
    My answer: YOU CAN’T!

    • Ya know, if you would just practice a bit, you could learn to scratch too, and wouldn’t have to mask your insecurities like this.

      • Ya Know, nobody has to practice scratching if they don’t want to. Show me the book, rules, law of the land that forces a DJ to know how to scratch; It is what it is: one the technique a DJ can have (NOT MUST HAVE)!
        – First off because I’m trying to establish sense in this never-ending debate doesn’t mean I never know how to scratch a record. I’m no Q-Bert by a long mile but I know I can!
        – Second, your answer shows how far people would go to discredit history; There’s no dancing around it.
        It is that simple: The DJ culture was around for 40 years before scratching was ever done and when it was done it was tied up to another culture: the Hip-Hop culture since the DJ who did it was part of the Hip-Hop growing scene.
        Well great, if you want to say that a Hip-Hop DJ should know how to scratch then maybe, just maybe that could resonate with many (and even me to a degree). However, there’s a plethora of other Genres of music out there where the known core DJs to those specific Genres since the beginning of DJing have no need to scratch those style of music. I mean, for the heck of it, they could or can, but it is not and never been a specific requirement to give them full credit of being a DJ.

        Pretty small example here since the world has hundreds of Genres and Style of music that DJs across continents play and DJ:
        * Reggae, Soca, Dancehall DJs scratches their records here and there but for most crews playing those style of music, they do it lightly. You’ll hear fast cut and quick selection of Riddims in Dancehall. Scratching? maybe but not needed. Heck, if they get drunk and rowdy, you’d more likely hear them rewind the music more often then scratching it. Well, that’s their culture and music, who are WE to tell them that “Hey man, since you ain’t scratching enough, you are not a [REAL] DJ”? huhmm tell me!

        * House music in its true form, its sub-genres and the many 4-to-the-floor type of Dance music in general are and never was scratch friendly, NEVER! So, you are going to tell me that Masters at Work, David Morales, Little Louie, Junior Sanchez, Frankie Knuckles (R.I.P), Paul Oakenfold, etc… etc… All these guys who are considered legends, graced the booth of the biggest and most iconic clubs around the world are not [REAL] DJs because they choose not to scratch? I mean, bro, let’s sit sit and think for a minute…LET’S THINK ABOUT THIS! Please tell me how you or anybody for that matter is going to discard these guys work in the booth simply because you didn’t hear them scratch the record?

        That’s the main reason, I wrote my original comment, and it seems that you have missed the point. Scratching is a technique attached to DJing Hip-Hop music 40 years after the beginning of DJing. Yes! Yes! Yes it has indeed spread across some other Genres. However, like I’ve mentioned above in a small example, there many, many, many other Genres of music which never has scratching has a primary (or even a secondary) technique in its DJing flow!

        • Slip cueing was the invention of mixing, which was the invention of djing as we know it, and slip cueing is a form of scratching. It is THAT simple

          • See, your one small liner has so many problems:

            * It is a FACT that Francis Grasso pioneered “Slip Cueing” in the 60’s. So, if “Slip Cueing” is a form of scratching then the “Scratch” discovery credits should have gone to Francis Grasso in the 60’s from the beginning then. The factual and historical fact that Grand Wizard Theodore discovered scratching accidentally in 1973 almost a decade after “Slip Cueing” should have never been counted. Come on man!

            * Slip-cueing is a turntable-based DJ technique that pre-dated scratch and its purpose was and still is solely to hold the record while the platter keep spinning and release the next song to beatmatch; A DJ gently move his hand back and forth to catch the downbeat. Simple as that! You can’t exchange, change around terms and meaning to deface history when it has been proving already. Stop it already!

            * Scratching on the other hand, is a technique (which requires a whole total skilled set) used to produce distinctive sounds, sometimes artificial or harmonic by moving a record back and forth on a turntable while optionally manipulating the crossfader on a DJ mixer.

            * Since “Slip Cueing” is done 99% internally through an headphone then a crowd never know what it is or when it is being effectively done. Well, unless you have the usual “guy” standing behind the DJ and following his every move.
            However, scratching is the total opposite where the it is heard through the output 99% of the time. Good ones or shitty ones, the DJs performing them always let them out!

            * Scratching became an art form on its own with many established techniques, from “Baby Scratch” to “Crab Scratch”. However, one thing remain the same for “Slip Cueing”: It stays being that one technique to prepare a beatmatch. It’s been serving DJs for 50 years and counting…

            • only problem I can find here is you getting your info from wiki instead of real life. Slip cueing gave birth to cutting. Cutting, which is what grasso was doing, is like scratching, but instead of using higher pitch tones to accent a beat, you’re making/moving the beat part of the record(the modern form of this is drumming) so it’s essentially the same as scratching, “put hand on record-move record back and forth”
              So, “real” djing is literally a hands-on endeavor. You need to be comfortable with “touching sound” and you just can’t learn that on a controller, at least not at the same level of complexity that you get when dealing with a spinning platter.

              • So, let’s say I’m doing a research on the 40th president of the U.S. Now, let’s also say I already know who it is but need some ways to write the info faster and end up using the following from Wiki: “Ronald Wilson Reagan (/ˈrɒnəld ˈwɪlsən ˈreɪɡən/; February 6, 1911 – June 5, 2004) was an American politician and conservative spokesman who served as the 40th President of the United States from 1981 to 1989.”
                So, although it is true and there’s no debating it, you’ll try to discredit simply because it was a passage from Wiki? I mean, I can clearly understand if there’s no way to prove the information. And I’ll clearly with you if that info was barely available anywhere else to A/B the content finding. However, the info is virtually the same everywhere then what makes the Wiki info less then?
                There isn’t a piece of historical writing which doesn’t state the DJ history accordingly the same. Yes, the information is not verbatim in all writings (even mine) but it follows the same line of events on/around the same years, naming and crediting the same people, etc…
                If you have a source where it is TOTALLY different then I’d be more than happy to take it.

                As far as what a DJ should, will use to learn and performing DJ tasks on, I’m not even gonna spend much time to discuss that. If choices was restricted to turntables only then I’d not be able to find other type of equipment to perform on.
                If the same wide range of choices we have today did exist in 1960 something, it would be the same as today, each DJ would choose what to perform on. There are many other industries which rely on a piece of hardware, as time went by, those either changed and/or new type of hardware get added for alternatives.

                I’ve touched, learned and own a pair of 1200’s since the mid-90’s. Since then I’ve sold the original pair, buy new ones 4 times. I’m sitting exactly 5 feet away from a 1200 setup everyday of my life at home; I treat them like babies who never grow up. However, does that make me blind to the facts, changes and evolution in an industry that’s been a part of my life professionally for over 17 years? NO!
                I’ll listen to opinions all the time, we all have some but I’d rather debate facts if we gonna spend time on it.
                With that said, that line of yours ” You need to be comfortable with “touching sound” and you just can’t learn that on a controller, at least not at the same level of complexity” is simply an opinion. I’ll take it and leave it as that.
                Thanks for sliding with your input though!

                • That word opinion gets thrown around a lot. One of the smartest comments i’ve seen on this site(sw) was about opinions. It said “you’re entitled to your opinion, youre not entitled to your own facts” ive given that word a lot of thought, and to me, it appears that many get opinion and assumption mixed up. An opinion comes from direct experience whereas an assumption comes from the lack of direct experience. Ive also thought a lot about assumption. There is that saying about “assume”, and i wonder if people really think about what it means. It means that all assumptions are the same one, that the other person is an ass, thereby making the assumer the ass.
                  we’re talking about the difference in “touching” a vinyl record spinning with high torque compared to touching a lifeless, sitting there, piece of plastic. So yea, thats my opinion, in the same way its my opinion that tieing your shoes helps them stay on your feet.

    • Reginald Fessenden in 1906 was the beginning.
      1950’s Kingston Jamaica is actually where the modern selecta (DJ) was born, in vibe and party orientation.
      But you’ve still gotta admit scratching rocks!

  45. I’m pretty sure most of you aren’t even DJ’s. You sound quite crazy and ridiculous. Anyone who DJ’s full time would be laughing at the amateur point of view, spewed in these comments.

  46. It’s opinions like that in the original meme that can seriously discourage budding DJs who don’t have the money or space to own a turntable or CDJ setup.

    If you are one of them, it is almost impossible to get fustrated, even if you say you are not. So let it instead inspire and fuel your passion and drive to succeed. Keep up with the times and technology. Do not be oblivious to the past, but also do not be a walking encyclopedia who name drops.

    Just know that while others are spending their time in front of their keyboards trying to justify their proficiency by hitting others down, you are practicing and going to gigs, even small ones, and showing the world, night after night, that you are trying, and soon enough, succeeding.

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