Today, due to 12 years of different accounts, I received five different emails from Native Instruments, all asking me the same question:
“How satisfied were you with Native Instruments in 2014?”
The incredibly short survey only seems interested in how they did in the last 12 months, to get some input from existing NI customers only. But what about those who aren’t customers, those that have yet to buy but perhaps have been put off? Their voice is just as important, because they’re yet to be convinced of NI’s workflows and can offer valuable feedback as to why.
I’ve already been asked and offered lengthy feedback as to my feelings. So I’m going to let you lot (including Team DJWORX) offer feedback that NI can read and discuss. And while the chances of them commenting directly are nil, you can be sure that they’ll be pouring over your comments.
Be it negative or positive, keep it clean and constructive. This is your chance to let NI know what you think of what they do now, and importantly what you want them to do in the future too.
I feel like NI as a whole has been pretty stagnant the past year. The dj division has not done anything with Traktor that would bring me back to it, I still have my licence and Audio 8 just in case. The Kontrol range of keyboards is also a let down, too expensive and this whole we don’t play nice with other software or hardware is a real turn off.They led the way with software features that were ahead of there time, and I’m sure every dance track out there is using Massive, but the only product that interest me at the moment is Maschine, it seems really well thought out.
I really love both Traktor and Maschine and how their software and hardware works together. But I had to return EVERY single controller I bought (2x Kontrol X1, 1x Kontrol F1, 1x Maschine MK2) after a few months (careful bedroom use only!) due to hardware faults. Sorry NI, your build quality sucks big time!
I’d love to see a Traktor Kontrol J1 single deck controller with a nice and big (Pioneer-like) jog wheel including a center display, tension control, and maybe an additional screen like on the S8. Basically, a good XDJ alternative at a slightly lower price.
Hello,
I just bought S8 and Maschine MK2, F1, Z1. I haven’t tested them yet. I also own Traktor DJ app on my iPad4 and Audio 2. So, consider this comment from a customer who is friendly to NI.
Hey NI…!!!
“HOW DO YOU THINK THE OWNERS OF TRAKTOR DJ COULD GET STEREO OUTPUT THROUGH AUDIO 2 WHEN THEY HAVE iOS8 INSTALLED. YOU HAVE NOT STILL FIXED THE ISSUE WITH IOS8. IT IS A SHEME THAT IT HAS BEEN FOR MORE THAN 3 MONTHS. THIS IS NOT FAIR.”
Btw, thanks to DJWORX to give me this chance to announce my complaint over here.
Sinan
+1 on a “J1” or something like it. Am a certified Traktor fanboi and have already provided feedback via the survey. I’ll say again though – PLEASE integrate Traktor and Maschine. Like really integrated – not midi sync and routing audio from Maschine to a deck. I’m thinking an add-on like Serato is doing (or the Slicer in-app purchase) that brings a Maschine deck to Traktor. Then a person can opt out if it’s not for them. Others will get a taste for Maschine (like the iMaschine app) and maybe want the full version? For real modular portability, I’d like to see controllers with usb hubs and compatability with the Traktor DJ app.
I think it might make sense for Native Instruments to make a Master host and have the ability to launch Traktor (and all other Native Instruments software) inside of it. They can control the environment better than they can inside of Ableton… or alternatively work closer with Ableton.
Still don’t know why you can’t load machine as a deck in traktor. Seem such an obvious feature
As a Traktor user since Traktor Scratch, I can’t wait for my XDJ’s to ship so I can make the switch to Rekordbox 3.0 for the library management. I’m not interested in the features that NI are trying to push with Traktor like the remix decks. For years I’ve heard rumors that a better library is coming, but it never did. I’m done waiting and I’m ready to ditch my laptop too.
This is going to be a long comment – But please bare with me!
I think my love and hate relationship as well as my disappointment in them lately is well known around these parts as I try to mention it quite often:
As Kevin wrote the built quality of N.I. is not as it should be.
My Z2 “crapped out” on me 2 times right after the purchase and had to
be returned/repaired and now once again something is broken – Same thing with
my maschine and several other N.I. hardware.
I really hope that N.I. are kicking themselves right now! I
understand them wanting to form their own eco-system á la Apple….and I love
Traktor and still believe that it was and hopefully could continue to be the
perfect software for me but features like Video or Serato’s are simply missing
– As is quality hardware (mixers that is – I believe the X1 and F1 are good as
they are)
Serato is definitely pushing out more and imho better products and / or product support / certifications of late!
I don’t think the S8 was a step in the right direction and eventhou I tried it out and went to a workshop it did not convince or amaze me at all!
The Numark NS7mk3 as well as the Pioneer DDJ-SZ; now those are Beast-Controllers andI was hoping for N.I. to bring out sth. similar before the S8 dropped. Yes I was hoping for full-size Jogwheels instead of the touch strip and Screens – And
I am also still hoping for a a full-size jogwheel controller – think Numark V7
or Pioneer XDJ!
Same thing with there control Z1!
Imho The Akai AMX is what the Z1 should have been like. And don’t
even get me started on comparing the Z2 to the Rane TTM62 or the TTM57mk2.
So, here’s to hoping that Native Instruments will soon release a Traktor Kontrol Z1mk2 as well as a Z2mk2!
For me personally the Z1mk2 should have :
– the “bare essential” transport controls
– EQs + Filters
– “DVS” inputs (line/phono)
– Mini Innofader as the crossfader (with curve control) => So as I said basically like the Akai AMX but for Traktor!
& the Z2mk2 should have (in no special order):
– curve-controls for all faders (preferably they should all be
FULL innofaders)
– controls for 3 FX Units per Deck (like the Pioneer DJM T1)
– Filter on & off buttons
– more metal and less plastic (f.ex. all stems)
– some controls (perhaps via shift+flux) to control the newly
added Freeze mode
– perhaps even some hardware effects or at least effect ins/outs
to add an external effect unit
– footswitch in
– EQ-Killbuttons like the Rane TTM57mk2
– AND MOST OF ALL: Two USB-Ports for easier switch-overs between
2 Traktor DJs
=> so just like all current rane mixers!
If they did update the Zs and were to add all those features
I’d buy both of them in a heartbeat, even for a higher price then N.I. usually charges:
(Z1mk2 => 249 – 399€) & Z2mk2 (999 – 1499 €)!!
Oh and while you are doing all that please please also give us more Traktor swag.
Like more colours for timecode vinyl – Only black, white, red and blue + the odd Thudrumble LTD Record is just not enough!
There is a reason that NI hasn’t bothered much in the jog department. The only real need for jogs – I mean need that can’t be covered in another way – is scratching. And for this, even the huge jogs on the top end CDJs isn’t really good enough. The only option is a turntable. Now ask yourself, why NI would bother trying to reinvent the turntable?
As much as a select few might like it, I think after the Remix Deck debacle, they’d be rather reluctant to pour cash into another product aimed at such a small percentage of users.
Traktor needs a video plug in. Preferably they should just team up with Inklen and offer official MixEmergency support like Serato FINALLY decided to do. I agre that the Z1 should have been EXACTLY what the Akai AMX is now. MixEmergency and the AMX are the only reasons I still use Serato.
I’m dissapointed with NI because of..well,lots of things. The reason why I switched to Serato was my new controller (disastrous scratching in Traktor) and Traktor’s “special function”, which messes up the content of your playlists. I’m still missing beat jump and proper delay freeze but Serato is slowly getting there. That said the only thing that could bring me back to NI is probably some kind of J1 modular controller, which was perfectly described by Kevin Basher. And it should be reasonably priced of course.
Beat jump (skipping forward or backward one measure) is there (at least on my Twitch), so I assume it’s an advanced feature that has to be assigned.
Yes,it’s there on my terminal mix 8, too, but it’s badly implemented. The command is shift + jog wheel turn and it’s way too sensitive. Besides I’d like to have loop size dependent beat jump like in traktor.
Well, that is one of the advantages of Traktor, you can re-map controls if you don’t like them. I don’t know if beat jump can be set to anything greater than the default, I’ve never tried it.
You can map it however you like. I’ve got it on the X1 default of 8 beats but have experimented. The loop size is mappable too.
I love Traktor but I have one gripe on the hardware side…..give us an X1 with a jogwheel already!!! We’ve been bitching about this for years, just do it already.
NI- I love the way you price. I love the openness of the software.
BUT… I personally switched 100% over to serato last year from using traktor for a few years. The main reason I switched was I didn’t want to use multiple softwares when I was gigging out. Serato has Video, more club installs, better GUI, and better controllers for mobile events. I’d rather just work on one platform and for the reasons above I got rid of my TSP2.0, Audio 10, x1, vestax 100se and use Serato DJ, SL3 Box, Rane 64, Pioneer SP1, NS6 and Dicers.
Where are you based? I was working in fabric in London not too long ago. Rooms 1 and 2 both had a Traktor Audio 10 as a permanent part of the booth setup. The Serato interface was kept in a cupboard. Take from that what you will.
I have 2 main issues with Traktor:
1. It takes forever to load your library off an external drive. I have used Virtual DJ 8, Serato, Cross, Deckadance and all of them work fine.
2. As a visually impaired DJ, I need to make the fonts bigger. I know you can make them bigger but that’s not big enough. Again every other DJ program that I’ve used lets me make the fonts as big as i need.
3. No a big issue but I will throw this one in as well. No “elastic” beat grids
might sound a bit meta but, rather than adding extra shiny, do more extensive research on addressing the bottlenecks in your paying users’ workflow rather than just garnering comments and survey responses from the internet. it wouldn’t hurt to compare how other packages like serato solve (or suffer) the same problems.
If NI doesn’t innovate its Traktor software will become the next Blackberry of the dj world.
It’s time for them to renew their relationship with outside hardware manufacturers so there are more choices for everyone. It looks to me that the closed environment is not working as I see alot of people abandoning them for Serato and other software. Even Pioneer who is pushing their software is still allowing the equipment to be HID complaint with other software.
There are some of us who just want to spin and have no interest in production.
Exactly!! One of traktors strengths in the past used to be that the software played nice with all midi-controllers (this was before HID / NHL Plattercontrol) and lots of Mixers: Mackie d2 pro / d4 pro, Korg Zero 4 / Zero 8, Denon DN-X1600 / DN-X1700 – (Never understood why not the DN-X600 but that’s a different story) and the Pioneer DJM-T1 – which sadly pioneer stopped producing/selling/supporting after the Z2 takeover!
Now all we have left are Natives own products and the Pioneer DJM 900/Nexus, Pioneer DJM 850! :(
Makes me really consider switching to Serato…Especially since all Hip-Hop clubs I spin at now seem to have some kind of Serato certified mixers and me being the last Traktor DJ in town – I always have to struggle through switchovers!
Same here. I have a pair of cdj 900 nexus and can only do time code or midi with Traktor whereas mostly all of the other dj Software have HID or native control. Just makes no sense.
The announcement from NI RE HID was basically that HID has to be done on a device by device basis. If enough people ask, they’ll do it. As such, your 900s and the new XDJ 1000s are soon getting the HID treatment.
Yes I saw that. Great news! Keep the pressure on them for other hardware such as Numark’s NS7 in which people have been asking for since it’s inception.
1. Transparency – Let us know more about the roadmap and what’s being worked on. I’m not saying give the store away. Just be more conversational. Let us know you’re listening.
2. Not everyone is an EDM DJ. Not every DJ needs more remix features/tools/sets. Prioritize some things all DJs can use, like warping and faster load speeds. Likewise, not every DJ is a producer.
3. Add video
4. In addition to A-list DJ videos, do things with popular local DJs. For example, visit a different city each week, run a clinic, film local DJs using your equipment and share the videos online. Stop being so one-sided with your communications. Actively seek out what people are doing with your DJ tools and share what you find.
5. Participate in your forums. Don’t just moderate.
AMEN!!!!
For number 2, rather than just ignore anyone not mixing Dance music, NI need to show off how their stuff can make other genres shine. Let’s see a Rap set with remix decks. Drum & Bass. Chillout. Movie OSTs. Old School Breakbeat. They need to put out a mini-series showcasing the remix decks all over the world.
You can get all that in Maschine, which is why I keep saying “Dump the Remix Decks, and spend more time integrating Maschine.”
I think, as it stands with Remix Decks, an idea worth looking at would be keeping the existing functionality as a simple mode that can be expanded to a Maschine deck for those with it. I would add that Maschine’s handling of loops would have to be vastly improved. It’s there, but hidden away in the sampler and not intuitive at all.
I’d also have to be able to step shift groups individually to be able to do some of the things I do on Remix decks. Maschine just can’t do some of the simple tricks of the Remix Decks.
I’m curious to know (always looking to improve) what the Remix Decks can do that Maschine cannot.
Well I’ve got an F1, so I have very easy control of my loops. Maschine can do the same thing, but its nowhere near as intuitive. Being able to quickly reverse a drum loop on the fly with just two buttons is something I’ve not seen in Maschine.
True, but Maschine is more of a production tool, but it’s so fast that people can use it in real-time.
On the second page of the Modules parameters, you can load your sample, select Modules, hit the right arrow, turn reverse on. If you have any time to prepare, you can set full pads on reverse mode too, but you’re right, it’s not as quick, by default. Additionally, you can reassign controls through the Maschine controller editor.
And here is why I’d prefer to see integration where a Maschine deck would be separate from the four track decks where they’d be bouncing between track and remix deck as I go and I can sort of DJ on top of that with groups in Maschine. That’s why I’d like to see Traktor being able to host Komplete FX too. Let Maschine do what it does best within the Traktor environment so it can complement rather than take over. Then, for those that don’t have Maschine, some of that flexibility is still there.
That’s why I suggested running Maschine as a VST. You’re right about a native environment being a better idea, but keeping it functionally similar would be a major victory for me.
I think everyone who uses Native Instruments software wants across the board, better integration. Maybe (as you pointed out) Kore should have more of a live element to it.
That’s an idea! Revive Kore to function as an environment to host both Traktor and Maschine. You could have overall transport run in Kore with slots for Traktor decks and Maschine and FX banks that can contain Traktor FX and/or VST FX with possible custom FX chains. Hell, you could write some unreal one knob macro FX!
Exactly. At first I was thinking this could all be done inside Traktor, but the more I thought about it, the more I understood that this is much more complicated than a simple module in which to integrate other things.
Make no mistake, integration in this method will require a lot of work, and I’d certainly expect NI to make all of their own gear native before anyone else’s gear.
Ultimately, I expect much of the NI environment to be like Ableton.
Which works for me. And you’ve got to admit, with how it’d tie everything together, Kore is an apt name!
Which works for me. And you’ve got to admit, with how it’d tie everything together, Kore is an apt name!
Sounds like NI should hire us. We seem to be solving their problems for them.
If we’re really backing KORE as the foundation for live playback, maybe it also needs it’s own hardware? Personally, I’d like to see 4 XLR outs for PA (and one to subs). It’d be helpful if NI wrote their own code for spatial placement of sounds seeing that stems are the new “it” project.
If they want to really go all out, I think assignable monitor ports, XLR ports (for lighting), and at least one video out port (HDMI) would satisfy the next step. If indeed the next step is physical, not Artificial Reality.
You want the future of DJing, this is it. Making this would unify everything at a club. Building off the Kore seems the smart way to handle future-proofing DJing.
Which works for me. And you’ve got to admit, with how it’d tie everything together, Kore is an apt name!
Yeah, this is what I was expecting when Native Instruments did their future of DJing marketing pitch, DJing and Live Production working in synchronicity through some proprietary hardware (Kore).
I’m actually going to try and pick up a second hand Kore 2 after this conversation. The controller will be useful for me. One of the things I don’t like about Maschine is that everythings pinned to the one controller. What if I want to simultaneously control the FX of one group while step sequencing the sounds of another?
I think Kore could help me out there.
Well, if you use Ableton as a VST instrument, you can re-assign controls, but now you’re playing firmly in the wheelhouse of mad scientist musician. You’ll want the buttons auto-assigned every time you launch the program, by mode, every time… and that takes a lot of time, energy… and grief.
I like your Kore 2 hardware angle, keep me updated on tha, I’d really like to see what happens.
What help (if any) do you believe the new NKS will be? https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/keyboards/komplete-kontrol-s-series/future-of-komplete-kontrol/
I think that’s a good idea. I like that there are audio outs, and 8 NI assignable knobs as part of the box. I think Native Instruments can do a better job imagining KORE 2 though.
If NI were to take an existing KORE 2 interface, and added the “new normal” screens, and laid out the buttons underneath the screens, I think KORE 3 would be an unprescendented interface, adding modular utility to almost anything.
Did you see the reply from NI on one of the other comments? It looks like someone is listening
“We would like to say thank you to everyone who has completed our survey
or left comments on this article. Feedback like this is extremely
valuable to us and it has a direct impact on the service we provide to
our customers and the products that we make. We constantly strive to
develop products our customers will love and to do that we need you to
tell us what you want.
This survey was sent out to all our
active customers (Traktor, Maschine, Komplete). The results of the
survey are compiled into a report along with your comments which make it
right into the hands of the people who are building these products.
While we are honestly not able to respond to each and everyones
comments, we do take them all very seriously and make use of them in
many ways.
We conduct numerous surveys during the year, most are
product specific. To avoid mass mailing you and blocking up your inbox,
these are sent out to a smaller random selection of our customers. If
you receive an invitation email from the Native Instruments research
team, we really encourage you to participate. Your feedback will be used
very closely in the process of ideation and improvement of our
products.
Again, thank you for all your support and valuable feedback.
Native Instruments Market Research Team”
I’d get it if it had HID support for CDJ 350s
What I like:
I work with NI products. It works well with custom mappings. My production to live environment is seamless. I think they do a great job bringing my recording world to my live sets.
I currently own:
Kontrol f1
Kontrol X1
Komplete 10
Komplete Kontrol S49
Maschine Studio
Kontrol S8
What I want:
Software to be ready before the hardware drops. It’s really annoying to have spent the money only to find the software isn’t out and won’t be for months. This has happened to me twice.
Open software to partners for extendability beyond NI.
I too want a big jog wheel with tension control. I’m about to get a pioneer because it’s not available in the NI ecosystem. Maybe something more advanced than the wheel with more buttons or knobs for creative scratching performances.
Massive Setup :-)
Just one question, how would you fit a jogwheel in that workflow and what would you need it for?
I miss scratching during my set and so does my crowd. I don’t want it for the “jog wheel”. If it can replace a turntable, great! if it can’t, I’m looking at the Reloop-8000 straight or something. But it would be great not to have to deal with needles or vinyl anymore. Scratching is just an irreplaceable effect in my book.
I perform with hiphop bands sometimes and that’s a key element of my set. I also at times play keys live and create synth lines with komplete.
Bottom line is I like making music, not just spinning it. When I am spinning tunes its remixed 90% of the time.
As far as space goes. I still have 3 feet of space on my table just enough for a platter.
Oh and I nixed the X1 since this pic. I had it mapped but it’s useless in the current rig.
You have a sick ass setup man!!!
Their lack of HID support or full Midi support for the Numark NS7 and V7s did it for me to give up on Traktor. They need to open their software like VDJ to support more new and legacy standard hardware. Numark and Denon made the closest controllers to a TT1200 with their spinning Vinyl platters. Had Traktor supported these devices with HID maps, I believe it would have kept them relevant. Now Serato rules and we are left wondering what could’ve been… Stacked waves would’ve been nice too.
A press release after survey from NI would be great, a lot of Traktor users are not so happy.
Full sized motorized platters with vinyl feel and innofaders everywhere. Add an akai pad section on each side and I would buy it on the first day. Ultimate scratch controller, how has no one made this yet?
Sounds almost like a Numark NS7 2 to me.
Indeed it does.
‘Full sized motorized platters with vinyl feel and innofaders everywhere’ would be heavy. How would this be better than 2 1200s and a Rane?
As a non-Traktor user and hip hop fan, the impression I have of NI is that they are interested in supporting features for the EDM crowd only and that I am not a target user for them. So I’ve never really considered using Traktor over Serato. Having read the comments below nothing is making me change my mind about that. And the guys at Serato must be doing high fives around the office reading these comments!
I don’t think that’s fair. Basically, Serato DJ recently has copied all the features that Traktor has had for ages! Software-wise I don’t see any reason to call one software to be more suitable for EDM and the other for Hip Hop. You can easily play ALL genres with every software, or did I miss a specific Hip Hop feature in Serato that Traktor does not have?
Exposure and marketing come to mind…
Fair or not, that’s the impression I NI give me and as JohnV says, it’s probably down to marketing as much as anything, but it’s NI who are doing that marketing after all…
I’m on serato and play house/techno 90% of the time. I used to have traktor scratch back in the days but switched to serato when their partnership with Stanton went south and the hardware stopped being supported. I’ve never looked back. Love maschine though, even though it still has ways to go to become a full fledge DAW imo. I love how you plug in the hardware and go, I hate midi mapping
I spin old school hip hop and R&B and use Traktor controllers and/or DVS. I think you see Traktor “catering to the EDM crowd” as the DJ’s you see promoting their gear and program are House and Techno DJ’s. I have never seen an EDM DJ or Producer in an NI advert.
I actually meant EDM in the broadest sense, including techno and house as opposed to hip hop, funk, etc although point taken.
My big gripe is the quality of new software releases. It is now accepted amongst Traktor users that you just don’t run the latest version if you want the software to work properly – there are always issues with the latest version.
And Metadata sync with TDJ has now been disabled for HOW LONG??? Come on guys – this is not a big deal for you to fix I know it. You need to support the stuff you put out properly not just forget about it once the glow of the initial press release has worn off.
Sort this stuff out and I would have no other complaints.
This is the biggest problem, I think. Nearly every recent point release has introduced some issue or other, and NI don’t seem to be in any rush to fix problems. Case in point: the Traktor DJ sync issue which wiped out people’s collections. All NI did was remove the feature and move on.
NI is great.
I love their soft synths.
…but…
Traktor is of course outdated.
What you used to only be able to do using its software — cue points, sync, waveforms, beat jump… you can now do on CDJs.
The CDJs are unbelievably stable and don’t require setup time or making other co-workers/owners mad. If a CDJ craps out, its the CDJs fault. If your laptop dies/freezes/gets unplugged…people view it as your fault for DJing with a computer.
To say nothing of ‘serato face’ or the whole CDJs vs controllers vs vinyl thing.
Traktor is now only for DJs who dont want or can’t afford a Pioneer rig.
Oh yeah, there’s 5-10 people in the world that use Remix Decks or drumpads and add to their overall performance by doing so. Fair play to them, and what they’re doing is cool.
Yeah, I’m gonna get flamed for this on a bedroom DJ controller website, I know.
Another thing, I am surprised more laptop DJs don’t make use of the modern PC laptops that have touchscreens that fold flat. You minimize the chances of haters calling you out for ‘Serato face’ but you gain many of the features introduced in the new CDJs/features that have been in Traktor for years. I use a Lenovo in the studio and daily for everything, and it’s never frozen or messed up once.
DJs like everyone else are brand-whores…so until Apple makes it, lots of DJ’s won’t do it…which is a shame. If I was NI, I would show some vids of famous DJs using Traktor and these newer-generation PCs…if anything…just so that the act of DJing with traktor looks different than it did 6 years ago, which in tech is a long time.
How so? Just because others have caught up doesn’t man that Traktor isn’t relevant or can’t play tunes.
Its outdated because other manufacturers (Pio specifically) incorporated their features into gear already in 90 percent of DJ booths. I say ‘outdated’ instead of ‘obsolete’ because yes, Traktor can still be used to play tunes.
But now you —choose— to use Traktor and lug a laptop + possibly controllers into the booth to utilize Traktor’s feature set. A DJ doesn’t have to do that anymore, he can just turn on the CDJs. Sort of like how DJ’s don’t have to lug wax around.
Make a new generation of hardware wich can work without a laptop.
Both Traktor controllers and Maschine wich internally run the software.
I mean, what’s all that “make beats without looking at your laptop” about if you still need a laptop?
I own a 150$ Android Phone wich can run in HD complex 3D games, the technology is there and is cheap enough.
I got the same email from NI and while I don’t have the quality or support issues that others describe, i had to rate them down for innovation, which I think captures a lot of the sentiment below.
NI could have been the first to market with an XDJ-RX – something game changing in the booth, but increasingly I see them as a home/studio production solution.
Props to them for prompting us to think about “the future of DJing” but let’s face it, unless you’re Carl Cox, you don’t get to bring your own rig into the booth and their software increasingly won’t talk to what’s in there (Pioneer XDJ-1000 being the most compelling change), which leaves me thinking; the future of DJing is Serato, Pioneer, A&H and innovators like Akai and Ableton.
Paul, that’s it .. after seven years of Traktor in professional use and 1,5 years of waiting for the next step(s) i’ve ordererd this week the Pioneer XDJ-RX as Backup-System for my gigs 2015. By the way i will discover and enjoy the growing Pioneer-Serato World (rekordbox, video, ….). Sorry NI, but the change is gonna come
This is an interesting question and it is usual to giants falling off due lack of self criticis which seems the biggest problem in NI. No hearing user feedback, extreme difficult to sell software licenses attached to hardware, no improvements in library, bugs in latest versions… And so on like we could see at comments.
About “standards at clubs” well in EUA Serato was the most adopted due to HipHop culture club and Europe was more Electronic (the majority of djs in this side hate EDM/Dubstep/Reggeton music but most of us must to djing these genres to work… Our EDM is the electrolatin music like Pitbull, J-Lo, Enrique Iglesias…) so is not truly certain that dj boots are Serato over Traktor. It depends on the country. Pioneer is another history because they were usually the “standard” lost them to inflexibility and “controllerism” era and non affordable to bedroom djs.
Meanwhile Pioneer has adapted to all these downbacks, NI instruments didn’t it.
In the other side we have the arise of “live acts” (another kind of the same controllerism) with Ableton Live becoming the standard for soft and elektron/korg for the hardware side.
The fact tat you could perform incredible gigs with a laptop and launchpad/apc broke the earlier standard… Serato The Bridge (maybe the gap will be more smart hehe), maxforlive ms.pinky patch and lately NI remix decks are the approarches to include these new paradigms in live remixing inside the old paradigm “A to B” mix. (Of course there are other solutions like livetronica studio or the newcoming pluging from image line, even the vdj8 new editors ex-timeline).
So the question is not about if someone, can get… Satisfaction! ;)
The question is: Towards who are you focusing NI? Could you define your target and focus all the divisions into these “future” you see?
Internal discussions which seems the reason for not maschine integration into Traktor (or almost some kind of plug/file sharing/ whatever!) in addition to lack of comunication (dreaming of being apple for djs) bring users to this (dissa)point.
Jm2c
“Apple for DJs” is a good way to put it. It’s a “walled garden” approach – inside, everything is nice & clean, but don’t even try to go outside because all that awaits you are sweat and tears ;)
“Apple for DJs” is a good way to put it. It’s a “walled garden” approach – inside, everything is nice & clean, but don’t even try to go outside because all that awaits you are sweat and tears ;)
I keep thinking about this Apple analogy. And while the idea is the same, the practice is somewhat different. Apple takes simple ideas and makes them simpler and more powerful. NI takes the relatively simple process of DJing and made it more difficult and brought power that just isn’t needed by 90% of their customers but pushed that like it’s really important.
They have nailed the same beautiful hardware element that Apple has though. But maybe making DJing easier with less controls is a an approach that might work better for controller users. And then the power can be added without complicating matters.
How do you come up with that 90% number… any sources/ hints about that?
And bit overpriced too… I live in Spain and I can’t afford a Maschine but I didn’t want neither because trigger finger pro is cheaper but it has internal sequencer too!
I get tired to wait and expect… To can’t afford! I prefer to buy interesting and right priced gear and adapt my workflow (or not so much) to these reliable gear.
Maybe a z2 mk2 (cloned from AMX+usb hub) make me think it twice… But at same price point (230€) and same quality (innofader). It will be irrelevant to me in whatever other form it come, sorry.
*poring
I honestly don’t know anymore. NI has a lot of insanely good products, but these days I find myself only using the production-related stuff – Maschine and Komplete, which are excellent. Traktor though? I’ve bought my first version in 1999, so I’ve been on board long before MIDI controllers became a thing… but over the years, achieving what I wanted to do – which is work with a DVS and Ableton Live at the same time – proved a huge pain in the ass with Traktor.
Eventually, I had to tick off long equipment check lists every time when leaving for a gig. It became REALLY hard to avoid some kind of technical mishap. I love nerding out, but when I notice that something in my setup slows me down or takes me away from doing what a performing musician does – PLAYING MUSIC without worrying about the intricacies of a setup too much – I tend to run out of patience real fast. That’s why I mostly use SDJ now. Although in my opinion, Traktor is still the superior DVS, SDJ has excellent key lock (Pitch’n Time) and does the basics well enough to make it a lot of fun to work with. The added value of being able to go “click” and have Live running in sync within seconds simply steals the deal for me, because then I can do unholy things (like use VST effects on tracks playing in Serato, sample from any source directly into Ableton Live etc.). Granted, it only really works like that when you use a Rane Sixty-Four, but the important thing is that all I need to do it are two USB cables! When I used the Z2, I had to work with my Virus TI as a secondary audio interface, use USB MIDI interfaces to try and maintain sync, plus I had to build a freakish audio routing matrix to be able to hack my way towards things that seemed too simple to warrant such effort in the first place – like being able to loop any channel though an external FX unit at any time.
While I understand that NI is a business and therefore they implement ways to lock users into their product ecosystem just like Serato does by partnering with basically the rest of the industry, as a consumer this REALLY annoys me. Why can’t I just buy something like Serato’s DVS expansion pack, but for Traktor? Let me use my monster mixer already, seriously. Instead of “certifying” some select pieces of hardware, just let us buy universal TSP crossgrade kits. Virtual DJ is an example of how this should be done – it has an impressive feature set and allows you to work with basically any piece of hardware. If only they could clean up that fugly mess of an interface… oh well.
As far as controllers go, the S2, S4 and S8 don’t appeal to me at all – I like customizing stuff and these all-in-one units dictate a certain work flow which can’t really be altered, and mine is different. The reason why I never bought an F1 is simple: Ableton Live eats Remix Decks for breakfast. Maschine decks could be fun, but I can use Maschine as a plug-in in Ableton Live so I don’t really care. I don’t have many uses for the Z1 either. The X1 – maybe, but as has been already stated, Akai’s AMX and AFX offer more control over SDJ than these do over TSP – and if I want to use Traktor, I can do a LOT more with my custom mapping for my two Electrix Tweakers which I worked out 3 years ago. The only NI controller I really love using is Maschine – it’s beautiful, it can take a beating, plus the software has never crashed on me in a live situation (and I’ve been using it since day one). It’s like the best bits of Electribes and MPCs came together – awesome. Speaking of awesome, the Z2 had a USB hub built in – one feature that I would love to see become a standard with NI gear.
Anyway, the bottom line is: everything Traktor does is so much the opposite of playing nice with others that I’ve grown tired of it. It used to be really open, but then certain features became NI controller exclusives which you had to spend a lot of time hacking… ain’t nobody got time fo’dat! Every once in a while, I’ll still bust out my Tweakers and enjoy some button mashing, because SDJ’s mapping engine doesn’t come close to what I can build in Traktor… but I miss vinyl control, and I’m not hooking up the Audio8 DJ for that – not only because it’s in use as part of my secondary setup, but primarily because my mixer has a MUCH better audio interface built in.
So what would make me happy, besides universal hardware support for DVS which I’d gladly pay money for despite owning TSP already?
TSP3 with Élastique Pro v3 (I really miss adjustable key in SDJ), flexible beat grids, multicore support that actually works, a revamped mapping editor (ermagherd!), a settings window that doesn’t take a minute to open, reliable MIDI sync as both master and slave, the ability to store custom effect presets (being able to edit each effect in a multi, tweak its advanced parameters and click SAVE – how is that not a thing yet?), capturing samples from any source live and with DVS control (I want to sample stuff and scratch it immediately without looking for a recording in the library first)… and speaking of library, going into detail on how much can be improved there would end in more of an essay than this post already is.
So finally, instead of putting screens on controllers, give me an iPad app that I can use almost exclusively for browsing the library. Four deck pads to drag tracks on, a search function, period. I don’t even need waveforms, although I wouldn’t say no to those either. Or you know what, just take the Traktor DJ app for iPad and turn that into a beastly control app that mirrors what’s going on in the desktop version – seems like a no-brainer. Kind of like Serato Remote, but with library browsing controls. LIBRARY. BROWSING. CONTROLS.
I think it depends on what your needs are. But, I use Traktor/Ableton at every show. I have Ableton slaved to Traktor and Ableton handles my outputs. No synch issues and no problems with Ableton effects. I also record what I’m doing back into Ableton. I’m on a Mac. Not sure if that matters.
Remix decks have my routine and Ableton is there really to extend Traktor. While I do agree that you can do more with clips in Ableton, I don’t see the need for them in my set yet. Remix handles what I need and Ableton is there to add on.
I map the S8 and I map the f1. I don’t have problems there. But truth is, just like you prepare your collection, you should prepare your gear. Just my opinion.
I would say that I would love support for Vsts in Traktor. That would be insane. I have a ton in the production world. Soundtoys specifically!
It’s fair to say that you and Ray are power users though – the top 5% that push Traktor to its very limits and beyond. I can’t even begin to imagine what you do with your stellar setup. but while you can be an inspiration to others, the trickle-down is unlikely to turn every DJ into performers like yourselves.
I also pointed out to NI that pushing the remix decks front and centre is going to limit appeal. It’s one of those features that requires preparation, something that I feel the majority of DJs don’t want to do.
Personally, I feel that doing more cool stuff with raw tracks is the way forward. Plug and play seems to be negated by hours of preparation.
They are far beyond the top 5%. The things they are doing put them in a category that’s easily smaller than 1% of DJ software users.
Bloody 1%ers.
Its true that we are the 1-5 percent. I see many on youtube and even my wife, who never DJ’d a set, use the S8 in the basic crossfader A-B way. Nothing wrong with that. However, I do think that our artform (Djing) needs to be pushed forward. There are tons of other companies that do the basics for a club DJ. Companies like Pioneer, Reloop, Rane, Serato are pushing forward but at a slower rate to me. The fact that i don’t need to look at my screen is win! I like my attention to be forward at my knobs, faders and buttons.
IMHO, Preparation performs better 100% of the time. What i mean by that is that there are cooler things you can do with your attention when you are in the moment. I have done shows with raw tracks and its cool but never as cool as songs/loops that i have prepped.
So I think the question is why should NI stop innovating? I think the 1% will eventually become the 40% and maybe we are then in a new age of the DJ.
Haha, thanks guys. 1% in DJing, 99% in everything else… #storyofmylife *le sigh*
@djpolymath:disqus Sorry, I should have clarified that I’m using two laptops (I also edited the inital post to include that bit of info). They’re pro-gamer grade PCs built to my specs and as such, they’re a bit overpowered – but even they can’t handle running a DVS, a full-on Ableton Live set (with dozens of plug-ins running live) and Kinect visuals (approx. 1GB of raw data per second with two sensors) simultaneously. It’s too much.
Since you’re working with the S8 and Ableton on one machine, I see the obvious advantage of having built-in screens because you can probably keep Ableton in the foreground most of the time – but as I said, I need two laptops unless I wanted to dumb down my sets… which I don’t :)
@mutismayfield:disqus Traxus is indeed powerful and has browsing controls, but it doesn’t give feedback from the software – so I still need to look at the screen. Besides, I’m already using two iPads – one for Omnisphere’s Omni TR and one for Lemur, to talk to both Ableton and my VJ software via OSC. Let’s just say that If my gear and I had a relationship status on Facebook, it would be “it’s complicated” ;)
You should give a try to traxus interactve, maybe it give some of your missed wishes but yes, most agreed.
One of the main reasons I’m going back to Serato is that at Serato’s library integration actually works with iTunes. I hate having to import all my playlists in iTunes into separate Traktor playlists and having to analyze everything. In Serato you just open your iTunes playlist, click analyze, and thats it, no need for doing stuff double, and I’m talking about Serato Intro, their free beginners software. Traktor’s library integration just sucks.
I’m quite sure most ‘normal’ DJ’s don’t care about remix decks. Of course there are a few high profile techno DJs that like doing that kind of stuff, and a few controllerists that can do amazing things on them, but just face it: most DJs, and most of your customers, are just hobbyists or semi-professionals who mix from A to B and are perfectly fine doing that (me included). So stop pushing features almost nobody cares about.
Give us (as mentioned below) a nice, full size (7 Inch) jogwheel controller that can control two decks (like the EKS Otus) and that is WELL BUILT. Honestly, DJs want metal, not glossy plastic. Ask Denon to design your hardware or something. And yes, it should be cheaper then the XDJ-1000s.
Trying to be Apple is great and all, but: you’re not Apple, it’s a totally different market, and it’s not gonna save you. So just open up your development again, and be transparent about it. Just because Pan-Pot, MK or Felix Da House Cat use your equipment doesn’t mean you’re king of the world. Your target audience will forever be bedroom DJs, since the handfull of professionals can play on whatever they want. So give the bedroom DJs what they want, not what you think they need.
tumblr_nhzgofbm8F1qf440bo3_1280.jpg
NI & Traktor is out of the DJ business, but they are going on producer stuff.
Innovation come from Pioneer, Serato, Akai, Rane etc…
Sorry about NI
I just don’t see that at all. I feel that they’ve backed themselves into a corner, or indeed moved to an island. But knowing the calibre of the people at NI as I do, they are simply getting ready to unleash their next big thing.
Ok, we’ll see what is the next big thing from NI very soon … I want to be surprised by a good dj company ;)
Yes, it seems Traktor is in the position Serato DJ was in a couple of years ago. Losing market share due to resting on their laurels. It’s time for NI to partner with hardware manufacturers and recommit to making their product what their clients are asking for.
Honestly I’d have to agree with Phil here. I would be surprised to see this “next big thing” TBH. I understand this has been the go to statement for a while but there should be SOME…………. thing in between this next big thing. Support, bug fixes, a heartbeat/pulse……. any sign of life at all. Traktor 2.7.3 was just not anything at all coming from an S8 owner too. I feel they are like Phil said going the producer/live remixer way and left Djing (traditional sense at the very least) to Serato.
i’ve been an active and happy ni user for most of the last decade (somewhere there’s still a product box of pro 53 flying around here) and never had any major hiccups or failures either producing or djing. the hardware is amazingly tough & stable (still rocking a 1st gen x1 and for backup an audio 4), and traktor hasnt failed on me once within the last 1,5 years. so all in i’m pretty happy and don’t see any reason to switch.
apart from a few features i’d love to see integrated in traktor (elastic beatgrids! simpler controller editor!) i just have 2 major points i’m unhappy with:
– pricing policy of production tools: over the years i’ve amassed a bit of synths & plugins (massive, guitar rig, razor, the mouth, etc pp), i’d love to get more of a discount based on what i already own should i ever make the leap and invest in komplete. right now it just doesnt feel financially smart to rebuy a lot of stuff i already own.
– (and i just learned this yesterday and am seriously pissed right now): why did ni drop the support for traktor on osx 10.7 (lion) all of a sudden? i’ve got a fully specced older white macbook that runs traktor without any problems and just bought a f1 to start messing around with freeze (& maybe a few samples), only to learn yesterday that it needs at least mountain lion to run (which doesnt support my laptop anymore). so right now i have a shiny paperweight with 16 rgb pads lying around :/
I’ll write pretty much what I wrote to NI, but I’ll flesh it out here.
Traktor still provides me the most pleasant DJ experience, when it works. I am in a situation where I have lost Multicore support and, even with everything set correctly, I experience crashes and breaks more often than I ever have.
I would love to move to Cross or Serato, but I feel that neither of those products are complete enough for me. They both offer barely any MIDI flexibility, I am not a fan of Serato’s interface, and Cross is always a few features behind what I’m looking for.
Traktor is no longer cutting edge, which is something that frustrates me as a user. I used to be able to hold my use of Traktor as a source of pride, since Serato was SO far behind for so long. But Traktor Pro 2 is around 5 years old now and needs to be updated. It needs 64 bit support. It needs a complete rework of the browser and the preferences/controller manager. It needs, like really needs, flexible grids. Settings need to be streamlined and simplified. It’s not that Traktor isn’t good, it’s that it is inexcusable that I am using a software in 2015 that went through its last major GUI update ten years ago with Traktor Pro. And not only that, but the solutions for a lot of those software upgrades, like Sample Decks and Remix Decks, feel like hacks, and not organized pieces.
Native Instruments needs to either work with more (see: any) partners, or truly embrace their position. They need to build media players/XDJ clones. They need to allow a user to exist entirely in their ecosystem. Maschine needs to be connected to Traktor, everything needs to communicate quickly and seamlessly. This is extremely difficult, but if NI is not going to work with anyone then they are going to find themselves in an extremely rough position in a few years.
And Traktor needs more testers. It feels like they have a core group of people who all use Macs, and then when a Windows user like me comes along the whole thing explodes. There are core issues which don’t get looked at because NI can’t replicate them, and that’s a huge problem. It just needs to be better, more streamlined, and cleaner. There’s obviously a lot of crap going on that needs to be removed, and, well, that takes a lot of time.
But I’m going to keep using it, mainly because I still haven’t found anything better for me. And that sucks, because it means that NI is less incentivized to keep my business, since I’m probably not going anywhere.
Just as a note, since I was corrected and it’s only fair, Traktor Pro 2 is 4 years old this year, not 5. The S4 came out in 2010, but Pro 2 came out officially in 2011.
I’ll share what I wrote in their survey:
I am a Traktor user. I am a Pop music DJ. I generally DJ from deck A to B with an occasional C thrown in. I own 2 Z2s a Z1, F1 and an X1mk2. The F1 and the remix decks have not worked their way into my work flow at all. It mostly sits in its case. Because I don’t the time or desire to do all this prep/production work to make the F1 worthwhile. The remix sets you do offer are all from dance music producers and really nothing that a mainstream music DJ like myself would ever need to play to a group of drunk college kids wanting to hear Rihanna or the corporate party or a wedding. Yet NI continues down this path of the producer/DJ which is a bit of a turn off because I have only a modicum of interest in producing. I would like solutions to the everyday A to B raw track DJ workflow. Here are a few things I would love to see:
1. Flexible beat grids. SO many of my tracks have BPM changes and transitions and this completely throws of any ability to sync.
2. Better I tunes intigration. I use I tunes to organize my music and the hoops I have to go through to keep everything in sync is crazy.
3. Easier mapping. I have not gone into the world of mapping my gear because to be honest it looks quite intimidating and scary the way NI implements it. I would love a click and map system.
4. VIDEO!!! I have lost a handfull of gigs because I can’t do music videos. Not enough to make me change but enough to know its an issue.
5. New hardware. If NI is going down this road of being a closed island then it needs to introduce new hardware to placate the want for new shiny toys. It also needs several additions to its line up including the Z4, J1, . It also needs a product with dual sound cards or some way to switch between users seamlessly.
OR
NI needs to open its gates back up and start working with other DJ companies again. Right now Serato is killing it and making people drool with their new offerings both hardware and software wise.
Those are just a few things of the major things, I’m sure I can come up with more. NI just has to be more active with Traktor or see it slowly but surely fall to #3 behind Serato and VDJ
You want to know why NI isn’t updating Traktor to fit your needs? Because you have absolutely no need for Traktor.
If you need sync to mix pop A to B ad infinum, please put the headphones down, step away from the booth and stop calling yourself a DJ.
Every complaint you’ve listed boils down to either “I’m too lazy to do X so NI should do Y instead of Z”.
For starters, I don’t need sync to mix. The fact is that the majority of my mixing is done manually. However beatgrids not lining up do to tempo changes in songs don’t only effect the ability to sync but also anything that requires quantizing such as loops or FX. So flexible beat grids are needed. Secondly, when you only have 6000 song or so and you only bring in 20 – 30 songs a month, music management is not bad. When you have almost 30,000 songs and are bringing in 30 – 40 songs a week and keeping two computers synced up it becomes a much more daunting task. And if you want to try and call me out as a real DJ I will battle you any day.
Wrote this Jan 2014 over at DJTT and unfortunately I think things have only got worse.
Hi All,
I have been using Traktor for a few years now and continue to love it and the features it gives me when DJing.
However…
I get the feeling Serato are making up ground in terms of user base and world wide adoption and doing so in a worrying way. Back when i first went for Traktor my decision was informed by the lack of features in serato (Effects etc) and the price difference. It seemed that I had made the right choice with Traktor making good progress on version updates/feature adding and gaining strong industry following from pro working DJ’s across the world (Qbert, Shiftee, Ean Golden, Richie Hawtin and many more).
In the last 6-12ish months I have felt/seen a shift over to Serato. The main reason I can see for this is that a number of industry leaders in other areas of DJing such as Pioneer, Rane (for obvious reasons), Vestax and I am sure others seem to be supporting Serato with their hardware offerings, not Traktor.
I would guess that this is down to NI and their desire to produce their own hardware. I completely understand this and I love some of the kit that NI have come out with but it does limit the Traktor market share to those people who are will to give up a degree of hardware choice.
So i guess the discussion or point i am trying to make is, is Serato starting to push Traktor out of the picture? Will hardware makers leave Traktor alone meaning customs tsi’s which may or may not play nicely with third party controllers. Are clubs going to install Serato only setups meaning a right pain in the back side when it comes to setting up for a gig using Traktor.
I just hope that either the market place is big enough for both or that Traktor push on and become industry standard.
Since I’m also a software engineer, I wanted to tally the score for the development backlog. And if NI will indeed read this, as they should, I’d like to see changes to make a future release.
So far it looks like: (in no particular order)
-More external support (Hardware/Software) – for the club DJ
-HID Support
-A better UI
-A more innovative separate jog wheel controller with HID support
-Beat Grid improvements.
-Better external drive support
-VST Plugin support
-Video Support
-Bigger font options for the visually impaired DJ
-iPad support
-Better iTunes integration
Other Feedback:
-Better testing on software drops
-Hiphop/Pop users feel alienated. (likely due to marketing)
-Pricing incentives for legacy users
For those complaining about remix decks… Switch it to a player deck and you are golden. You don’t even have to see it anymore. The rest of us love it.:)
I’ve found this discussion to be healthy. I agree with most that was said. I’d like to stay in NI world if possible. Listening to these concerns would be a huge factor in future purchases.
I’ll agree with everything you’ve said except the Remix Decks part. The people set to handle that part of the project are taking resources away from making other parts of Traktor better, and they’re redoing work already done by the Maschine team.
Thats just it though. I don’t want machine. I also can’t do what I do on remix decks in machine. No warping and no independent loop lanes that correspond to each other. That’s not rework. It’s currently not possible. If I wanted machine Id use it. I do own one, but that’s another device to haul to a gig. For those of us who do use remix decks in a performance setting, machine isn’t needed.
The implementation they have for remix is great. It’s optional and works quite well. I actually believe that it prohibits creativity by not having it there. It’s simple, for those who don’t want it, don’t use it. I have no gripes with its function or use in the app. My issues lie elsewhere.
Like I said earlier serato and pioneer cator to those who have no wish to go beyond the deck to deck mixing. NI is going the right direction.
Wow!. After reading all of these comments, I can only see NI either crying right now (thus giving up) or taking action RIGHT NOW to MAKE THINGS WORK (both hardware and software as we ALL expected it like years ago!).
I don’t think they’d ask if they didn’t intend on improving the software. Someone’s performance evaluation is obviously on the line here.
I’m going to be in the minority here but one of my biggest gripes is the FX. I wish it was easier to select FX from the software. I loved how the FX looked on the S8 (popping up on the screen) and would love something similar on the laptop. As it is, it’s so hard to find and trigger the effect you want impromptu like you can on a hardware effect box. When I had a XDJ-R1 I found myself using the effects and the post fade echo almost all the time. When I transitioned back to Traktor, which has better FX, I find it too hard to take advantage of. This is why I loved the midifighter classic with instant FX back in the day, but that hasn’t evolved and hasn’t provided me with spontaneous usability. It’s just something about the drop down selection menu that I find jarring mid set…
That’s bit of a GUI design issue, but you can fix that with a custom mapping. It’s possible to tell each FX unit to load a specific effect – no big deal, really.
Depending on what controller you use there is a way to search the effects without having to access the pull down menu. The X1 Mk1 has this ability by pressing shift and the corresponding effects bank number 1, 2, or 3.
That will cycle the effects but it’s more cumbersome then actually selecting the effect, a la pioneer’s effect knob/color efx buttons.
I wish Traktor had a richer UI for interacting with the track list. Also variable, warpable, beat grids, VSTs inside Traktor, and multi-client support for the Audio10’s.
Only one comment about a Z4. I guess people don’t want that now then? Or have you all given up on it?
I have pretty much given up on the idea of a Z4 and I’m hoping for a Z2 MK2 with the release of traktor 3. I am giving native instruments about three months and if I don’t see some things change I’m probably going to move towards the Pioneer RX
Looking at a DJM850 instead, think I may just give my Z2 to my daughter for doing school dances. I really miss the other 2 channel faders and hi/med/low gains, those rotary knobs for c and d decks just don’t do it for me. If the software stays as flaky as it has been with 2.7.x, I think Mixvibe may have a new Cross customer.
I wouldn’t mind a Z4 (i’d probably buy it) but I’d rather have a high quality Z2mk2! ;)
VST Plugin support in Traktor 3 please NI. Not just FX plugins but at least one instrument slot for hosting Maschine.
That is something Maschine already does, if Maschine is implemented properly, this will be a non-issue. Maybe the Maschine Product Manager should absorb Traktor under the Maschine Super-Project umbrella.
The easiest way I can think of to integrate the two would be running Maschine as a VST within Traktor as a 5th deck of sorts. But having a VST deck would also enable non Maschine producers getting more value from Traktor.
Oh I think it would be just as easy (if not easier) for N.I. to integrate Maschine with Traktor. VSTs are necessarily less stable than using native code, and you most likely won’t have the number of features nor speed of the native code with VSTs. Additionally, if a company like N.I. uses VSTs to solve their problems they would be publicly admitting they cannot integrate their own software together (very not good).
Perhaps, but keeping the option for those that choose not to invest in Maschine shouldn’t be discouraged.
Perhaps, but keeping the option for those that choose not to invest in Maschine shouldn’t be discouraged.
This is one of those topics I’d really like to approach the merits of point-by-point with the developers. I don’t think a mere scraping of “we need to do this” and “we should stop doing that” will actually be the right approach, we need a real sit-down and talk it out conversation. What many of us feel is “It’s time for Native Instruments to think long and hard about the changes they need to commit to in order to compete in the DJ software world, if indeed they still want to.”
First: Institute a better method of two-way communication between the developers and the users. Almost all DJ software companies are guilty of this, and it’s something all power-users are very irked about. We want to know that features we want are being addressed, not surprised when the new release gives us certain functionality. If there is a feature we want, keep us in the loop. No one cares about who has a feature first, they care about who does it right, and a company that actively supports it’s users. Native Instruments is currently known for stonewalling communication, and then making a big production of new features upon the day of release. This is not a good way to customers (as proven by many CRM company’s research such as Salesforce).
Second: Focus on rock-solid, basic usage and stability. Most users will simply not get past A-B mixing and that’s OK. It’s time for automatic HID plug and play on most DJ controllers, and at least helping lesser known manufacturers to make the HID Traktor map. Serato does this for all supported controllers, Native Instruments certainly has the ability to do this with MIDI mode, but should really do this with HID mode to win back users. I don’t mean to upset anyone here, but Traktor Kontrol controllers are not considered top-tier anymore.
Third: Give the users at least what they are asking for… and no less. This is the other part of what I was saying in point 1. We’re on year 3 of no video support of any sort for Traktor (not even Syphon Output… go buy MixEmergency and problem solved), with no feedback regarding as such, despite many users asking for it. Users have been asking for something like Serato DJ’s Smart Crates, customizable interfaces (you can’t even change the background color anymore), VST support, no response… this list goes on and on, and what did we get? The Remix Decks… a feature that quite honestly is something most people do not want, and directly undermines the integration of another N.I. product: Maschine.
Fourth: Improve the Controller Editor. To be honest, the Controller Editor is one of the best selling points of Traktor, because it is the most powerful controller mapper in the industry, but with little official support and only one improvement in the last few years, it seems like it was the intention to make the Controller Editor so difficult that people would choose to begrudgingly buy Traktor Kontrol interfaces instead of cementing their bond with the software they love and improving their gear as their financial situation improved. If this was the intention, it backfired. Serato has chosen not to support gear outside their realm and Native Instruments basically let them take over. Many Serato DJ controller owners say “I know my controller has a Serato H.I.D. mode, why hasn’t the team at Traktor implemented this within the Controller Editor yet?”
Fifth: Improve Library Management. Sorting, analyzing, folders, everything about the Traktor file management is like an outdated flat-file Excel spreadsheet. Serato’s Smart Crates automatically update, but Traktor Pro doesn’t update unless it’s told to. The (let’s call them) “Crate folders” section is abysmally bad, with no ability to show a folder tree, these are basically “dump folders.” Under “Track Collection” there’s no color-coding for mood or other ‘percentile of similarities’, there’s no ability to sort by “column 1 AND column 2” (this is REALLY important to many users), there’s not much there other than the basic data, the star rating and the last time the song was cued up. There are modern database techniques that could be implemented and referenced so users can see at what time in the night the songs were (or were not) a hit, so Traktor becomes more of a partner in developing sets instead of just a fancy playback tool… I think only Mixed-in-Key does this now.
Sixth: Address the clunkiness of the interface. Give legacy users the ability to keep using Traktor they way they are used to, but it’s time to give users some new options. It’s time to make some changes to the Interface, especially if it’s going to be integrated with other Native Instruments products. Grabbing and using a recording from Traktor should be seamless and easy to manipulate, but it’s not (just like the Remix Decks). Adjusting grids and using Cue Markers (hopefully for automated actions too) should be easy, but it’s not. I bet most user beatmarkers are named “n.n.”, and they have no idea they can rename them, or even change their type. Synching a track to another cannot be done in thirds, fifths, or even quarters and eighths, only 1:1 or 1:2, please give us that option (and a blinking “get ready to do something” option like the end of track indicator currently does. Not even making this available is inexusable from a top-tier music software company. In my Vinyl and CD days, I used to have an “on-deck” area, where I could easily set a list of tracks to play next, and while the “Crate folder” area could be this, it’s very easy for a DJ to lose track of songs they’re intending to play next.
Let me be very clear that I *DO* use Traktor for my most of my DJ gigs because feature-for-feature, it’s the best interface for me and I imagine it would be very hard on me to sync Maschine to Serato DJ. There are many times that I don’t choose to do something live I know I can do (because I’ve practiced it at home) in the club because it’s very risky to do some advanced techniques live in Traktor.
You went in hard.
Uh… sorry?
Your answer was elaborate.
Hopefully, it showed that I care.
I asked for a feature a few revs ago, and it would be really simple. The history lists from previous launches are only loadable from browsing the file structure. While doable, this is a very cumbersome process that could be simplified.
Traktor knows where it saves your history because it makes the files itself, and can load them as playlists. If it already KNOWS where they are, why make users navigate to them when it could simply add a subfolder view like its internal Playlists. Simply label it “History” and list the play dates and song count and total length like this “20150205-23:30_15T-60m” and allow users to rename them also (i.e. 201502-CogDis-PTSet). The date format would auto sort its time.
Also I second the secondary column sort feature. I would love to be able to sort by BPM & Key to easily find compatible tracks to fade between. A third sub sort would be star rating or genre, and I would be stoked.
I have experience making database schema and the sort UIs, so I know the work involved to add this would be well within the realm of possibility and the resources used to add this to the internal DB would pay off in terms of usability.
Second to stability, usability is at the top of of any person’s list of things programs must have. This means making complex actions easy, and optimizing efficiency by adding features that save clicks and time for advanced users.
Drag the folder to one of your favourites slots. Job done.
http://soundslikeacid.com/?p=357
– Shoutcast broadcasting with Traktor…. Why isn’t this possible yet? Really annoying to have to utilise various forms of workarounds to do this. I’ve actually been seriously looking at the competition (which keeps bringing more and more to the table) simply because of this… It would be valuable to have the ability to ~natively~ use either type of streaming service – even if it were an extra $10 to add in.
– Maschine decks would be rather handy as well. Given that they’re aiming at both markets (djs and producers) why not offer a seamless way of utilizing both at the same time for some rather interesting creativity opportunities, be they pre-planned or even just spur of the moment?
As for my satisfaction with their products over last year? While some of the newer products that came out were fairly pretty up front (S8 comes to mind), after a few hours of contemplating I honestly couldn’t figure out how it would even fit into what I currently have, and in all honesty was actually more excited with products other companies have announced (like Pioneer’s XDJ-1000’s, although I’d still rather just get a pair of Denon SC3900’s as they can perform similar duties, work with timecode CD’s, not to mention regular CDs).
Shoutcast in Traktor: go to your settings, then click on Broadcasting, fill out the fields, and close the window. Go back into the main interface and click on the sideways cassette image and click on the antenna button above the record button, viola! You’re broadcasting!
I’d been doing this for years.
Shoutcast doesn’t support Ogg Vorbis streams and since that’s the only option available within Traktor’s options I fail to see how you would be streaming to an actual Shoutcast server.
Icecast yes, but not Shoutcast. One still has to use audio loopback cables (aka take the output from soundcard, and route it into an input) then utilise a third party piece of software (say #BUTT (Broadcast Using This Tool) or something else) and then some sort of scrobber to get track information actually sent out as well.
Why not have the service relay the stream? Is there a reason you need Shoucast specifically?
I stream to shoutcast servers, hence why the desire for native support for such. Native Instruments made such a big deal about being able to stream to online radio servers when it was introduced in Traktor DJ Studio 3.0, yet even back then Icecast servers were incredibly rare, so why they chose to go with such still makes no sense to me.
Sure, the current workarounds “do the job” (one example of a software workaround is here: http://www.kraftyradio.com/profiles/187/ ), but it feels rather kludgy to have to load up 2-3 more pieces of software and take the hit to CPU usage just to be able to stream in the format that’s still the most common to online radio.
At least two competing software suites support the ability to stream to Shoutcast out of the box (Virtual DJ 8 and Mixxx come to mind), yet Native Instruments continues to ignore the demand for this highly requested feature.
Yeah, I think it’s the OGG Vorbis format that isn’t supported. Much like split cue, this area has been ignored after many years of users requesting the feature.
I’m not sure I’d use either one, but if I chose to stream again, I’d probably dedicate a computer to uploading everything including video.
I always thought the big issue with streaming was making sure the quality was good enough for people listening to the stream on the other end. Ultimately, streaming comes down to “How many people will be able to hear this at once”, because we know we can podcast with no loss, and even stream with no loss using other streaming services. Uploads came down to what the server wanted to charge for the bandwidth, and you can see how this becomes price prohibitive when you start pushing uncompressed to over 1000 listeners all at once.
I had enjoyed streaming to Second Life’s virtual club music servers, many years ago until things caused me to melt down (thanks crash of 2008), but it was a great learning experience and it was very cool talking with people from other countries.
Note to self: I should go visit again and see how some old friends are.
For me, it is NI’s arrogance.
I have the original Traktor DJ from around 2000-ish and treated myself to an Audio 8 with Traktor Scratch Pro 1 but when the upgrade came to go to TSP2 I didn’t get it straight away. I got it a few months later so now need to buy the DVS plugin pack at £99 just to play TSP2 with my Audio 8.
NO CHANCE NI. I feel they had me over with this. I have my timecode from TSP1 which works with TSP2 but I need to buy the kit with TP2 again as it’s the licence key I need. Seriously? £99 for a licence key because I was “just” outside of their cheap upgrade window?
If I’d upgraded in the first two months I’d have had TSP2 upgraded from my TSP1 for about £50-ish and everything would have still worked but I didn’t (that’s my fault) but to turn off my vinyls and make me pay for a new DVS kit it just too far.
Never again. Support was rude and unsympathetic when I very politely explained the situation. Basically “You didn’t upgrade in the two month grace period so now that new copy of TP2 you bought is useless unless you spend an extra £99 on top to get TSP2… even though you own TP2”.
No discount for already owning TP2? No… Jog on NI.
“What we did in 2014 ?” , IT’S A FUNNY Question : YOU DID NOTHING , and u know it
Did you miss the Kontrol S8 and freeze mode for Traktor Pro?!
Maschine 2.1 and 2.2, Komplete 10 and the Komplete Kontrol series. I admit they have let their Traktor users down at this point, but NI’s bread and butter has been Komplete for many years and they seem to be keeping up in both that and Maschine… NI is so much more than just Traktor.
It would appear to me that NI has continued pooring money and resources into developing Hardware (which has appeared to alienate themselves from companies like Pioneer) as apposed to focusing on their software products better and easier to use.
I don´t even know where to start here… As many devices/controllers and software options you have, that many various approaches you have in using all that stuff.
Neither Traktor nor any other NI product (or in that matter any product from any company) will fit the needs for all kinds of porpuses. So to a certain degree I can understand why NI is not really into communication with the users these days. Just imagine being surrounded by thousands of people and everyone telling you what to because they think it´s the best… I´d turn into the Hulk within the blink of an eye.
Of course NI relies on their customers to make money and the best customer is a happy customer. But besides all those people who are complaining about stuff they don´t like about a product there are most likely even more people satisfied with the product and who don´t take part in some sort of online bashing. And although I´m a NI product owner (way more than just one) I know that my money ain´t worth more than from someone who is just getting into it and is about to buy his/her first controller or whatever. So where to draw the line here?
For example:
I´m a turntablist and I have a few things on my wishlist that would make the ideal setup for me to combine the traditional DJing with (scratch based) music production, everything happening live, being able to adjust things, use FX etc.
Video support on the other hand isn´t important to me at all… There are lots of examples of demands and expectations that are contrary to each other. So instead of trying to please everyone (which is impossible anyway) a company has to decide for itself in which direction to go, even if means losing some customers. Sometimes you need to shrink back to a healthy size instead of following the endless growth dogma after which the result is always the same: collapse!
Long story short: although I´d like some features to have from NI I´m not expecting them and I´m not pissed if they´re going in a different direction. It´s their choice and at the same time I have the choice to choose products from other companies which fit my needs better.
If you really want a setup that fits all your needs (which will change anyway as time passes) there´s only one proper solution: custom build gear. I´d like that but I don´t have the dough for that.
To end this here is my wishlist, without any expectations ;)
A Machine deck in Traktor would be really nice. For my porpuse it would be best if it allowed timecode control of the Machine deck as well, you program a sequence in Maschine and flip it with your scratching skills right away, without exporting and drag and dropping it first…
And on top of that I wouldn´t mind ditching the loop recorder (which isn´t useful for a turntablist anyway, either it re-records the master signal everytime you build a layer or the crossfader movement doesn´t get recorded) if it was made possible to record into a Remix Deck cell… With an added F1 you get almost endless possibilities to build a track with loops).
Komplete FX in Traktor would be the cherry on top.
http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/15800000/homer-simpson-2-the-simpsons-15836214-279-320.jpg
This sounds awesome. Scratching a live loop without drag and drop is just sick! Recording into a remix deck is exactly what I want. Capture feature is cool but recording would extend ideas that are effect heavy or needle drops triggered through hot cues.
On a side note, what´s really been bugging me lately is the huge sticker drift when you practice backspins/juggling with a loop. Anyone else experience that? When I practice with a normal cue point it´s fine, but with a loop the 12 o´clock marker ends up at around 3 o´clock after a minute or so. (I read somewhere that it´s caused by needle skipping ?)
Some improvement on this would be highly appreciated. I stored the loop point as a loop for a reason so i don´t want to have to make a double version of a track if used for different porpuses.
I only complain about video.
I don’t know how the marketing strategy of “the future of djing” is doing vs serato’s “real djing”, but what seemed to be traktor’s main advantage (compatibility with any hardware) doesn’t seem their aim now (of course, cause they make all their hardware now). Haven’t seen many s8 being used. And forget the club, not even bedroom djs want it apparently.
I’d LIKE more hid support for more hardware. At least they should give you hid support for MASCHINE dammnit.
Yeah, that seems to be the biggest gaff. Not integrating other projects at NI, especially something so closely related, and revered as Maschine… STILL(!) disrupts the idea that everything will work with everything else at NI. Thankfully, they fired the project manager who wasted time in Traktor *not* integrating Maschine, independently developing something inferior to it (the Kontrol F1), and locking out anything but the F1. That guy was a jerk and he sullied the name while regressing years of good work for the Traktor brand.
If Native Instruments was to get around to any one thing…
The company is quoted as saying that recommended requirements will continue to grow as laptops get more and more powerful.
If this going to be the case please properly utilize our hardware and give us a stable 64bit audio engine. It is what I was hope 2.7.x was.
If this isn’t addressed in the near future, my X1, Audio 10 and Z2 will be used for Cross. Mixvibe seems to be doing the Pioneer support that you have dropped. Your strength was in your flexibility and ability to adapt to any situation.
Totally, Mixbvibes and Pioneer are on to something
MIxvibes is the company that created the original rekord box.
My guess ist: Mixvibes is definitely already in the hands of Pioneer and will soon be transformed in some kind of Rekordbox plus/pro/full which will sooner or later be the only software that can be used with Pioneer gear. Pioneer locked out Traktor, as the paths of NI and Pioneer hardware crossed more and more (DDJ line vs. Kontrol line, Z2 vs. DJM-T1) and they will sooner or later lock out Serato as they will not be willing to pay the premium that Serato asks for.
That’s a dangerous game.
But they will play it!
I don’t think Pioneer’s new owners will do that. They have more interest in selling their products than choking out competition with their own interface.
Pioneers new owners are interested in maxing out their profit. At the moment they probably pay around 5-10% of their revenue to Serato for the software license. Pioneer will happily transform these 5-10% into their own profit sooner or later. They have around twice as many employees as Native Instruments only for their DJ range, they easily have the resources to develop their own ecosystem and I am pretty sure they will do it soon.
That’s an uphill battle. If they wait to buy a competitor, that’s one thing. Directly challenging a top-tier software company is almost suicide… even if you have the resources, and it drives an unnecessary wedge between vendors and customers. You always want to help the customer choose to buy what you have to sell, if you give them no other choice, they will jump ship the first chance they get. Never underestimate an unsatisfied customer.
To clarify – rekordbox was a joint Pioneer/Mixvibes product but is now in the hands of Pioneer. Cross belongs entirely to Mixvibes.
As for locking out Serato — I’ve postulated for a while that Pioneer is developing rekordbox to be a fully independent package in its own right. It’s not as though Pioneer needs anyone to dominate the clubs, and if they can do that without help and hold the professional DJ crown then they will.
The writing is already on the wall as more people are coming round to the rekordbox workflow as the product develops.
The new version Recordbox is Pioneer only, no Mixvibes input and completely open source. Mixvibes DVS system is their own beast that has a 64 bit audio engine and CD HID support. It will also utilize any sound card (including Rand SL’s and NI soundcards), but it will also use soundcards in mixers and the Wolfson DAC’s in CDJ’s (making it so you just plug them in through USB instead of using a soundcard).
Besides, I thought HID support was the software vendors responsibility, not the hardware producer.
I’m going to switch to Mixvibes Cross 3. I bought CDJ 350’s naively thinking that they had, or would have Traktor HID support….still waiting. Even Serato is a bit all over the place with DJ and SSL supporting different gear. U can use 350’s in HID with SSL but… you need an certified SSL Audio interface, even tho the 350’s have an audio interface…There must be millions of 350’s out there, all non traktor using 350’s.
But the clincher is Library compatibility. U can set up your library in MIXVibes, which is record box compatible, and export playlists and what not for traktor and serato and keep all the info. Got a gig in a club? Just bung out a rekord box usb at home take it to the club for some nexus fun.
Not many companies seem to think about the logistics of all this different gear and library management. DJ’s are not electronic music performers, u don’t need to rearrange a whole desk between acts, its silly. It’s good to see an industry / club standard start to emerge that actually makes our job easier and not this petty tribal / brand loyalty bullshit theses kinds of forums are full of.
All this new tech of the last decade is great fun in the bedroom. The old club standards only really allowed for 2 deck (3-4 maybe) style mixing. Now we have cue point juggling, flux modes, FX, remix-a-thingamies, so to have a system where I can easily go from home to club with little more than a USB and play tracks the old skool way or the nu skool, is just fantastic. Don’t have to worry about redoing cue points etc for different software
To show up to a gig with just a few usb’s, and my swagger, is lot easier than packing controllers, worrying about controllers, pugin in controllers etc…
The technology should not be a barrier / hinderance. Separate software companies, with separate standards, catering to separate customers just creates more barriers.
Look what MIDI did for the studio world, imagine a modern DJ equivalent, I think we may be getting close, I really hope so anyway!
I agree that things should be getting easier, but when you have a lot of complex things available to you, you will have to manage that somehow. I think we can both agree that advanced options should have the option to be turned off.
@DJWORX:disqus do you all know someone at NI that will actually be reading all of the comments below this write up? There is some great things being shared here and with the survey NI has sent out to users must have opened the floodgates over there with their Traktor division. I have taken the time to read over 90% of these comments and I see some great things. They really need to address their clients with some kind of positive feedback or information soon. They have been so mum since the launch of the S8. They also have not addressed all of the issues that people have been complaining about since 2.7.X.
Everyone who needs to read them is reading, even at the highest levels. Their market research team contacted my yesterday to thank us for posting this thread. In fact, I have a statement from them:
So yes, they’re reading.
Great, I’ve certainly learned a lot about how the software is being used from this post. I hope we get something really slick and really awesome. I really want to stay loyal to the NI brand. But I need a reason to.
Thank you.
I have a gut feeling Native Instruments is going to give us the things we have been asking for in Traktor 3 built from the ground up, that’s why they had that survey to toy with the critics. The S8 is a dream piece of gear, just imagine if Traktor 3 has a beatgrid similar to ableton live the S8 would be a beast, Bass and funk music no jog wheels would be needed. I use Serato for video only if a gig calls for it. I love the remix decks you can do so much. Music video clips on remix decks what. I have used the turntables since 1979, did all kinds of tricks with 2 or 3 tables back in the day hard work , no cue points , no audio wave to monitor just small needle marks on hundreds of vinyl records to find the downbeats. I still used turntables & cdj, I have everything that NI ever made. I don’t see NI giving us HID support to other manufactures, I really wish they would. It can only get better in 2015.
The S8 isn’t a dream piece of gear if you are into scratching. In fact, it’s a non starter.
True, it’s hard to scratch on the S8 with vinyl, I use the kontrol z2. The S8 is still easier to scratch on then the mixers we had in the 80’s.
Can you clarify a bit on this? Just wondering if you are speaking of the lack of something specific ?(jogs, crossfader issues or size?) I use it with a turntable and its fine….I’m by no means DMC worthy but I hold it down with the S8 . I know the crossfader and faders are user replaceable but haven’t done so.
Its the lack of Jog wheels. I shouldn’t really comment on the S8 because I have a
controller that fits my needs. Sorry about the troll’ish tone. But to be
more specific; the reason is that the S8 isn’t a standalone option for
me. I often bring my controller over to friends houses/place/room.
Lugging a full DVS system isn’t an option, and the S8’s lack of jog
wheels means that anyone who likes to scratch wont be able to perform
semi-complex scratches.
Also things like que ins. I like to cue in a song manually. I don’t like
to rely on que points. It depends on the beat and where I want to bring
it in (spontaneous). I’m not sure if the touch strip would be able to
be as accurate as I would like. I’m not talking about the actual que
point, but finding the que point by spinning the platter. I doubt a
touch strip would be as efficient in those instances?
Then there’s scratching. When I see someone do orbits, tears, chirps,
stabs, and transformers (the only tricks I can do btw) with a touch strip
then I might give it a look.
Maybe I’m just old school. Maybe
not…. I began on turntables, I tried stationary jog wheels and liked
them (certain things I can do better on a stationary jog wheel), So if
the touch strips could do what I want then to do, then I’m all in. I’ll
always have a home DVS setup so I can always return back to my roots.
I’m willing.
Yeah, I get it. My thoughts are that you never scratch with those touch strips. Even though they say you can, we know better. Record spins and other effects just don’t cut it with a touch strip. Although seeking is easier and preferred with touch strips, turntables/jogs do a better job of marking a que point. I fully agree with that.
I just don’t think the s8 was supposed to be the all in one for every DJ. I say that because they said from the beginning that turntablists want turntables. I agree with that. I can use a cdj or 1200 for my true scratch needs. I wouldn’t look for a controller to do that. But yes, it creates another problem by adding to your rig. Everyone is coming out with their version on 1200s right now and I’m a believer in the old school scratch method. The control is just unbeatable with a direct drive deck.
give me those old school records, im sure you dont need them anymore
Collecting vinyl is all we used to do back in the days. There wasn’t no technology in the 80’s. We went from record store to record store. I sold most of my double copies 15 years ago I wish I didn’t now.
What do you mean back in the days? Some of us still do! :)
Keep shouting about HID support. As I mentioned elsewhere in this thread, HID has to be done on a device by device basis so it’s up to you to let them know it’s needed. HID for the Pio 900NXS and the XDJ 1000 are coming thanks to this.
Oh Oh Oh… a proper software/MIDI bridge for Mashine and Komplete integration into Traktor. Traktor would be so much better with all of my K9U effects, The Mouth set to Mic line in through Traktor or live decks in C/D with Maschine or Kontact loaded. I’m talking about a nice clean route, not this scuzzy third-party option that PC owners are forced to use.
Yes! Now that it seems NI has said they care about this input, they’re probably considering making every NI product work with every other NI product, seamlessly. How much would that rock?
All isn’t bad at NI. I’m going to be purchasing a X1 MkII. But I’ll be using it with VDj8 and not Traktor. So if Traktor 3 is what it should be, I still might come back (I still have F1 and Audio 6) . They’re plenty of things that I liked about Traktor. The search next to the artist name, album, is the quickest way to do searched for an artist. I’ve used that option tons of times to bring up other songs from an artist. I also liked the ability to scratch the samples in the remix decks (just wished there was a hot key to switch back and forth). The Traktor remix decks are more robust when it comes to customization. And the very first thing that drew me to Traktor over Serato 3 years ago, was that the Platters in the app actually looks like vinyl. I know that sounds petty, but I wanted something that reminded my of vinyl. On top of that everyone was using Serato, I wanted to be different. I was the right choice 3 years ago. Serato users would see what Traktor could do and instantly be jealous. Traktor was so far ahead of everything else then. What the “F” happened to them?
The Product Manager for Traktor got a little bit… Fascist, when he forced the Remix Decks on us. Native I struments fired him (justifiably), and it’s been difficult coming back from that, meanwhile at the same time, Serato refocused their efforts to revamp Itch into Serato DJ. The roles of these two companies have actually swapped in about 3 years. If you recall, Serato was on the ropes too (coming out of a disappointing relationship with Ableton ‘Bridge’ at the time).
Native Instruments will not let Traktor fail, they’ll probably turn Traktor into the Musician’s DJ interface. NI will also not continue down the path they were just on, because that would drag down the whole company’s name (and sales).
Hopefully they won’t forget the hip-hop DJ.
I would so love 2 things from NI:
1) An S4mk3 with screens and most importantly, split cue!
2) A standalone controller not too dissimilar to the CDJ2000 nexus but with effects controls and a built in soundcard.
This is a common request that I really don’t see the point in. Why try to get NI to remake an existing product. Aside from the Z2, S4 and S2, NI has made fairly unique controllers. I don’t see that trend ending anytime soon. The S8 and D2 serve to underline that.
Hey guys I keep hearing about this abandonment of Hip-Hop Djs….Whats the actual problem behind that? Is it the Turntablists speaking or a lack of something else? Just curious.
I spin funk and hip-hop/trap at gigs and haven’t had a problem. I also use the hell out of the remix decks for one shots.
I think a huge part of it is marketing. Just about every marketing piece from NI is geared towards Dance music DJs. Sure Craze and Shiftiee will do routines here and there, but let’s face it, you are looking at Felix the House Cat, Jeremy Ellis, Ean Golden and Mad Zach etc. Not to mention as far as I’ve seen, almost all the remix packs are dance music based. When you add on to that the apparent abandonment of jog wheels in the S8 and lack of a J1, it just seems that NI has focused on the dance community. You can no doubt rock a Hip Hop or Pop set with Traktor, but its clear at least from their marketing, NI’s future of DJing is dance music.
I recently got a new iPad, and I wanted to use it with Traktor and the NI Audio 2 connected to an external mixer to output two independent stereo tracks. Unfortunately, I learned that the Audio 2 still won’t work with iOS 8 (which was installed on my iPad when I got it), and that the Audio 2 also requires a $35 official apple lightning to 30-pin adapter.
It’s bad enough that in order to output two stereo tracks, you have to cue one and put the crossfader over to the other side (leaving way too many ways to hit the wrong part of the screen and screw up the track assignments), and that the power supply needed to keep the iPad charged during use is sold separately (for about a third of the price of the Audio 2), but the fact that I’d still need to buy a lightning adapter over two years after the introduction of lightning connector is just absurd.
My NI wish list for 2015:
-make a lightning cable for the Audio 2 (and include it in the package)
-make the Audio 2 work with iOS 8
-include a “two deck playback” mode in the Traktor iPad software that removes the crossfader and the cue buttons from the main display when activated
I think NI has done to move DJ:ing into the future and should get the proper props for that. 3things that I´d like to see:
1) Ableton-like beatgridding. Would instantly be adding new genres to the content available to the non-beatmatching DJ. There´s 30M tracks on Spotify, why not use them all? Widening the creative material means the software is not tied to any genre and mean that Traktor popularity isn´t tied to “EDM” popularity.
2) The iPad browser with “similar tracks” based on BPM and Key should come to the laptop now. NI has innovated around how to manipulate the CURRENT track and has taken that to a new level. Now I´d like to see the same effort on innovation on how the DJ selects the NEXT track. Algoriddim/Spotify and Pacemaker/Spotify stole the initiative here. Luckily the Spotify/Echonest API:s are free and easy to use.
3) Use Maschine as a proper, synced deck in Traktor. It´s such a given. Would instantly be a USP in the DJ choice between Traktor and Serato. Not utilizing that and allow Serato to gain market share is odd (Yes, I am a businessman in the music industry during the day…).
Three things I totally forgot to mention in my long post, that I would love to see from Native Instruments:
1.) A proper Traktor Remote App for the iPad!
2.) A X1mk3 with bigger pads and in a horizontal layout to be placed above the mixer….think Reloop Neon or Pioneer DDJ SP!
3.) Make the Traktor DJ App fully compatible to all your hardware = Kontrol Z2 with Timecode and the Kontrol S8!
Oh and please bring back the collection synq for the Traktor DJ App Traktor Pro!!!
I think that in 2014, development of Traktor has been stagnating. these are the things that bother me most, but I see no sign these will ever be addressed:
1) Fixed BPM per trackl only. Come on, how hard could it be to just add a BPM field per grid cue point?
2) Annoying bug: if for a track sync is on, and you trigger tempo sync (it’s a trigger in the mappings), instead of synchronizing the track to the master tempo, Traktor will adjust its tempo by double the difference. For example, if the master tempo is 130BPM and the track is 127BPM, and you press tempo sync with sync on, the track’s tempo will not be set to be set to 127BPM (=130 – 3),, but instead to 124BPM (=130 – 3 – 3).
3) For controller mapping, I just wish the conditions where broadened. For example, currently it is not possible to add a condition for whether a track is loaded in the deck or not, whether the deck is selected as the master for the tempo or not, or whether its sync is on. But you can select any of these as output (for controller LEDs).
A simple idea to fix this would be to just use an output signal to set one of the modifier variables, instead of sending it to the controller.
These are just from the top of my head, I’m quite sure there are several others that I just can’t think of right now.
And what did NI fix on Traktor in 2014? Nothing that I can think of.
Here are a few other things that I thought about since my last post. First on the hardware side, NI, can you PLEASE!!!! add split cue on your headphone output. This seems like a simple no brainer, but as far as I can tell none of their gear has it.
Next would be for marketing. How about a weekly competition to showcase NI gear. Maybe users submit a 5 minute routine using NI gear. And each week the team at NI picks a winner that is showcased on their website and youtube and maybe recieve something like a $200 voucher to the NI shop. This way you can have users from around the world and across different genres showing off what can be done using NI gear. And this will cost NI less than $1k a month in marketing. But will open up a huge new connection between NI and its customers.
Also maybe add a brand ambassador for NI. Someone who can go out to forums and actually represent NI officially. Kind of like Silvio over at Denon…just someone that doesn’t put their foot in their mouth as often. He’s great though and if he responds to something, you know that is what is actually going on at Denon.
Controller mapping in Traktor is diabolical. No copy, no paste, endless lists off CCs and notes, scrolling of ever – why not just type them in?
The list of assignments cannot be rearranged, grouped (in virtual folders), colour coded… really… in 2015?
No sends from decks to FX… Whyyyyyyy?????? Is a send that much more difficult to code than an ON/OFF toggle?
No retina interface?
Stuttering waveforms on a card with 2Gb of VRAM? Really?
As other technology moves on, Traktor is rapidly becoming a software-fossil. I’m only hoping they are almost ready with T3, incorporating a Maschine deck, Tab-switchable environments, 21st century grade controller editor, and maybe even a MIDI learn option for twisties and pushies…
URGENT AND IMPORTANT:
-A REAL Maschine integration by all means (come on, its your own product, should be a nobrainer)
-A REAL iTunes integration
-Controller mapping improvement (copy and paste, grouping, color coding, …)
-Beat Grid improvements
-Record into Remix Decks and therefore ditch loop recorder (who uses it anyway?)
When there is time:
-More font/layout options
-iPad Remote support
No need IMO, but not angry when its there :):
-VST Plugin support
-Video Integration Support
-Better external drive support
And hurry, we are not getting any younger :D
I think they had some good pushes in 2014. However the S8 is a great product, but a lot of people prefer the modular setup. I think these all in ones are going to die soon. Once they start breaking and people will be like “What do I do now?” they will go back to modular setups that at least you can make a comeback from during a failure.
I think a new Z2 or Z4 should be released and the controller side of the S8 made into a 10″ controller to sit along side a mixer. An X1/F1 hybrid so to speak.
But the year is still early so I expect something else to come out….
Check out the D2 bro! NI seems to agree with you. At least on that part anyway.
hi, i’m steve brown, the ef hutton of djing. i will happily accept a consulting contract, and fix this mess you have gotten yourself into. mark has my email, and can attest to the validity of not only my grasp of industry trends, but my ability to create them. for anyone who says or thinks anything negative about me, I will remind them that everything I have done and said in this business was with the customer in mind first, before my own gain. and so i leave you with that as a starter for changes that should be made.
i’ll also throw you a don draper dj bone….ask yourself…. “What product does NI make for djs that if interviewed, they would associate with the word FUN?”
if you do manage to turn this around, which given the tendency to hire people that have more important things to do than stay up all night testing a new product, as I DO, i doubt you will make a comeback. but if you do, recall that question I asked you to see just how spot on relevant it was to what you were trying to do.
over and out…………….
As someone who started djing with traktor in 2012 by pirating a version of their software then later purchasing it I jumped ship last year to using serato and vdj which I love and has been a breath of fresh air. Here are the reasons i abandoned traktor or NI:
1. the way the program manages your music is absolutely abysmal. analysing your tracks is painful. the constant error messages you run into with a multi format library is infuriating (cover art is to large, various problems with mp4’s). the way “crates” are created and managed is clunky and slow. (Why is it so fucking ridiculous to suppose that I should be able to see ALL songs contained in a parent crate/playlist/folder when i click it?!! instead it shows a blank window. who desiigned this. this isnt just NI but vdj aswell.)
NI can seriously take a lesson from serato on this topic. as soon as I moved over to serato i couldnt believe the relief that came from simply moving and organzing my tracks, especially with external hdds which blew my mind – literally load and go. This was the determining factor fuelling my abandonment of traktor.
2. No video support which – for me – is very important.
3. laggy waveforms (minor)
4. itunes integration is a joke.
5. laughable support system for customers. this is another area they need to take example from serato, who provides fast, helpful, sincere support from reps on their forums which have been a very valuable resource to myself and lots of other djs.
6.NI you need a more open relationship with your customers like that of your competitors. Stop ignoring what people who support you are requesting. I dunno if its just me but since 2012 you have created a largely negative perception around the dj part of your company. You are marginalizing your software to an ever receding group djs who do not are subject to the same needs as the general population. This in contrast to your competitors, who have opened and diversified their software to meet the needs of almost any dj, has driven alot people away.
7. lack of innovation. While Ni has been releasing hardware regularly, traktor hasn’t seen innovation for quite some time and once again when contrasted with competitors; becomes very apparent.
things i like:
1. very detailed waveforms
2. supporting highly complex modular setups. (something vdj and serato need to take note of)
3. interface customization
4. good keylock.
5. great audio quality
6. great audio output quality.
7. one time cost for software unlike seratos policy of charging for everything down to the god damned keylock.
Like I said beforehand, I did jump ship and sell my audio 10 and s4 for the competitors, but I do dearly miss the truely modular nature of traktor. If one day NI can get their shit together I may purchase a license once again, though i think the company needs to seriously re-examine its philosophies when it comes to the relationship they would like to have with their customers.
NI you say traktor is the future of djing, but…
if you want to HAVE a future IN djing then you need to listen to…
DJS
If you’re going to do modular layouts, you might as well ask for a multiple monitor environment too.
For the love of GOD, either create the damn HID mappings for the last few gens of Pioneer’s CDJ’s, incorporate jogwheels back into your own S4/S8 (with screens), or create your own jogwheel players with screens to work with the Z1,Z2,X1, etc.
Honestly hope that Traktor Pro 3 is deep in the works and about ready, imo the entire software needs a serious revamp to keep up with Serato and even Virtual DJ at this point. I’ve been getting so close to switching over to Serato this year it’s not funny, but I believe in NI to have something held in their pockets at this point.
Elastic beatgrids for tracks with real drummers
Maschine Deck Integration
VST support would be great, but hell, why not let us use Komplete or I’d even be happy with just Guitar Rig. I used to use that as an insert effect processor on my rig and was doing some crazy shit with it.
iTunes integration
Revamped mapping with copy, paste, etc that has already been mentioned
Video mixing
Something along the lines of Serato Flip style remixing capability
Bring back the Native Mix Recorder, that was an amazing feature back in traktor 3
iPad/Android remote control, or revamp Traktor DJ to interact with Traktor Pro. Even if I was just able to browse/load tracks and see grids wirelessly I’d be happy.
Or even better, make Traktor DJ capable of plugging into my Z2 and give it DVS support… I’d ditch my computer all together and would be VERY happy…
Change the settings on the Key knob to be note increases/decreases instead of decimal points… This would be amazing to change a tracks by a two steps instead of figuring out what the hell two notes worth of key change is in decimals.
All I can think of at this moment, sure there’s more though…
I just thought of another thing that I haven´t read here yet:
Split your recorded Mix into seperate channels ( 4 at best with Decks C & D ) for later adjustments/rework.
I remember seeing it in a Serato video a few years ago, don´t know if they still have this option. I think everyone already made that experience that you´re recording a nice mix and towards the end there´s this major screw up that ruins the whole thing… IMO splitting the recording would be the easiest and most convenient way to edit your mix afterwards.
And another thing I´ve noticed is the huge sticker drift when you practice Backspins or Juggling with a loop. Anyone else experience that? If I practice with a normal Cue point it´s all good but with a loop the 12 o´clock marker keeps drifting and would go a full cicle if I didn´t set the 12 o´clock marker again. If I remember correctly this is caused by needle skipping but when it´s possible to make it work for a normal Cue point it doesn´t sound impossible to me to make it work for a loop as well.
And while I´m at it I would also think that another little controller would fit in perfectly between the Z2 mixer and the turntable. Something slim with buttons to map the key function of Traktor to it to have something like a Controller One (which I gave up on ever finding one to purchase).
I like the idea of the Quickswitch controller, guess it was just ahead of its time (2nd picture):
http://www.djworx.com/skratchworx/newspage.php?fn_mode=comments&fn_id=1494
So something like this with the usual colored F1 buttons, switchable banks/pages (to control the full octave range) and/or blank pages to Midi map the stuff you want (or possibility to switch to User Mode like the F1 maybe).
Would any of you non-turntablist DJ´s have any use for a controller like that? I mean even if you just used it to have easy access to all hot cues without switching anything would be a nice thing.
I’m just addressing your first concern: 4 deck recording. You can set Ableton (or any other DAW) to record 4 discrete ins as long as your sound card can handle it. This is precisely what a DAW was built for, and it solves your problem with little fuss.
I personally think as Dj Producer than :
IN 2014 : I did not buy the S8. I was ready for, but after a test, the S8 is bringing to me nothing new. I use an S4, and two F1. I personally think than the F1 is more flexible than the remix deck control on S8. I bought nothing new from NI. I sold my X1.
1. Please to reactivate the feature of Traktor DJ with Traktor Pro. Don’t forget than many of your clients paid for this feature only. Preparing your cue / sets with Ipad is a great think.
2. Yes Traktor 2 getting old. But with the launch of the S8, i would have beleived than Traktor would have integrated a way to activate FX on a specific sample rather than the full Remix Deck. And no. Wrong .. That seriously missing now.
3. you guys know that for ages but one big old stuff is the Library. Please to create a library where we can create our own automatic playlist with specifics tags. Itunes will be never a solution (for now, it helping a lot thought).
I hope 2015 will bring Traktor Pro above others.
Great points Mark. You should do as i do with these nonsense no head no tail automated survey from which theyd learn shit.
Att called me today (this is an automated call about a survey on our performance.. ClICK . i hunged up.
these companies as they grow they all make thr same mistakes. Stop opening their eyes and cleaning their earsM they are a lot they dont see or wont even hear at all .. because the vision is no longer there, more importantly nobody can carry it.
Ill be damn if i even spend a second on ur att survey when att violate my wallets lies wasted 5hours of my time.. and got my blood pressure to some ridiculous hedge.
Dont bother. I dont