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The controllerist corners of the DJ world were agog when Native Instruments introduced the Remix Decks back in 2012. Heralded as the next revolution in DJing, it’s fair to say that as a workflow, it was definitively revolutionary from a DJ perspective, but despite this it hasn’t really impacted on the wider DJ scene. Perhaps a look at NI’s new Remix Deck video might help you understand what’s going on.
Mad Zach is one again on hand to abuse the Kontrol F1s in a bid to show the potential of the Remix Decks. Sandwiching a Z2 betwixt a brace of F1s does give better context for how the F1s and Remix Decks can be viewed, which in this case is replacing decks with a pair of advanced loop and sample controllers. So in this respect, the setup is very DJ oriented.
But at its core and certainly the way Mad Zach uses them, Remix Decks are very much about performing more in an Ableton Live way than playing one track to another in a DJ style. So you can see how the majority of DJs might steer clear as it really doesn’t fit in with the established two or even four deck workflow.
Not now, but the future?
NI has been very quiet, playing its cards closer to its chest than ever. But given that they’re pushing the Remix Decks again, this suggests to me that they’re still very active in this area, and may well be playing a part in what we assume to be a big update to Traktor Pro 3.
Given that DJs are increasingly expected to be producers and performers as well as chatter increasing around stems i.e. individual elements of a track being made available, one could theorise that the Remix Decks are about to get a serious upgrade, and along with it will possibly come new hardware.
It’s about accessibility
When launched, I advised NI to do as many tutorials as possible, because as a workflow it’s a bit of a head-scratcher for most DJs. Those accustomed to years of conventional DJing struggle with the concept, nor can most people be arsed to make Remix Sets. Like Ableton Live, there’s a very steep learning curve to take an A to B jockey into using bits of sounds.
For me, the adoption of the Remix Deck workflow will depend on the content that’s available for it, and making it a tad easier to understand and use. If people can readily lay their hands on music that they and their audience knows, and can easily smash to pieces, then it’ll be adopted. It’s great that NI offers gigabytes of free homemade Remix Sets, but that’s not DJing — that’s production. DJs need to play things the crowd knows if Remix Decks are to get wide acceptance. But give them stems from popular music and an easy to use Remix Set construction kit and the game is changed.
Wouldn’t it be nice if…
Kicking around the principle of making Remix Decks easier in the Worlxlab, Dan came up with the idea of an app that scans a track and makes a best guess at creating a Remix Set automatically, and be able to fine tune as necessary. Given Traktor’s ability to scan music and create heat based waveforms and beat grids, it shouldn’t be too hard to add to this feature set to automatically grab sections of tracks. We’re not saying it would be perfect from the start, but it would give people the immediate ability to get to grips with Remix Decks.
Do you use Remix Decks? If so how? If not, why not? Let’s give NI some solid feedback.
“nor can most people be arsed to make Remix Sets.”
Ha.
If this is the future of DJing god help us.. I have yet to hear someone use the remix decks and it not sound like some half arsed gobbly-gook.
As a Traktor DJ who outgrew traditional 2 deck mixing, I was trying to find a way to layer loops “on the fly” to extend track mixes and maintain energy. When the remix decks were introduced (and the F1), i thought they were a God send.
Sadly, in practice i was having sync issues with “on the fly” loop copying from a track deck to a remix deck. Things were just not spot on, and required pitch bending. I assumed this is because i don’t beat grid my tracks. However, I found a solution to my problem by bypassing the remix decks all together, and performing a deck duplicate function from one track deck, to another track deck (everything gets copied, and syncs perfectly).
This was clear evidence to me that the remix decks are a great concept and useful for ableton-style DJing, but not an easy tool to implement for traditional DJs who are looking to integrate loops “on the fly” (without prior preparation). I enjoyed and agree with this article, and I’m hoping that the remix decks will be improved upon with further updates as i do see great potential within them. I’d prefer to use them over my current solution, but for now… i’ll get by with what works.
Kosta X
http://www.kosta-x.com
Yeah, I lost all interest in the Remix Decks when I found out they didn’t have fine nudge control, and you could only pick one sample from each column.
At the time, the Maschine Mikro Mk2 looked to be poised as another Remix Deck controller, but it ultimately surpassed the Remix Decks and showed me why I really wanted a true drum machine solution. Granted, it’s more expensive than the F1, but the F1 doesn’t have velocity sensitive pads, which means that the buttons on the Maschine were more expressive; velocity can be loudness, after-touch can be effect control, and I have used pressure as tempo change (like the old vinyl drag technique).
Ultimately, I was seduced by Maschine to make backing grooves (as this is what it was designed for) for my sets and I have loved playing with it ever since.
I refer to the Remix Decks as Maschine Jr, because it really is a cut-down version of Maschine. Hopefully, Native Instruments will just include Maschine integration in the future inside Traktor and just call the Remix Decks “their favorite mistake.”
Zach may produce music in real time, but that’s not what most people will do with with this functionality. Props to those who lay it all on the line, but my workflow is “a little preparation, and a lot of flow.”
I can see the point (and I was expecting maschine integration in Traktor since The Bridge announcement) but Remix deck are… Remix decks! They should create a groovebox deck (and hardware for integration with regular turntables please) to implement things like Digitalwarrior and MF twister could do (and your idea of drops throught velocity/aftertouch sensivity)
@Mark @Jared What happened with the Traxus review?
I think that artificially limiting the Remix Decks to only doing what the F1 is capable of, limits a lot of otherwise capable performers unnecessarily. Implementing 3rd Party hardware is nice, but 1st party hardware should be mandatory.
Sure but one things is “what is it” and another “what will love it should be”
I hope NI implement some of these great ideas, open the control and let users do their job.
;)
I think that the remix decks were a great idea. I believe Richie Hawtin had mentioned a year or so ago that in the future producers would release songs to DJs as loops and samples so that they could present them as they pleased. I think that’s a very exciting concept for the creative, tech savy DJ looking to be different. I think that is what the remix decks are aimed at. However, Ableton still seems like a much more viable choice for this. As a turntablist I can say I’d rather use Ableton, running Maschine inside it and Serato on top to gain turntable accompaniment. Even with all that going on, I think its still easier, more stable, and visually more appealing than dealing with Traktor. NI is on the right path but seem to be making things aimed at those few who will take hours to craft a pre-made set as opposed to those wanting to start Traktor and let the creative juices flow. Something has to give. It either has to be extremely easy and simple to use or have the power, features and reliability that warrant such complexity. Just my 2 cents.
Also +1 on just throwing Maschine in Traktor.
I’m a bit disagree (but not anonyed ;) ) because to me (with some expertise at Live and turntable set and development) Remix Decks are the most flexible tool nowadays (for the dj/turntablist) as sound mangling realtime concern.
I was very dissapointed about the Bridge due to its limitations about audio content scratching and Ms. Pinky was a great idea but needed more development in sync/looping capabilities… But the most important thing is preparation!
To start doing similar in Ableton 8 you should warp, route and deal with 2 views (only onw availiable each time), maxforlive… what a mesh!
In live 9 you have a new feature from the arrangement view (export selection to session) which make this process a bit more confortable but you can’t mangle the audio content in regular djing paradigm (aka scratch and so)
In Traktor this process is simple as select loop and drag and drop to a remix deck cell… If they implement the algorythm to “extract song parts” (based in “energy” and some math) they will be a paradise!
I don’t typically play with vinyl, but might I suggest you try a friend of mine’s software program: http://www.stagecraftsoftware.com/ It seems to do everything you’re asking for.
I have Aaron apps in my radar and wishlist but for club job I need an stardard like Serato/traktor/Live. Time to dealing with setup/performance issues are past I need something most plugandplay as possible.
Oh, Livetronica Studio uses everyone’s time codes… even the free ones.
I’ve been using an external MIDI sequencer triggering remix deck samples to do drumloops that can be rearranged and scratched on the fly. It’s pretty fun for that.
Yeah, I hadn’t really thought about manipulating “how” you control playback, but since pitch bend and modulation are native in Maschine, I suppose it wouldn’t be too hard to assign play head scrub to any sample (loops, one-shots, etc., everything is a sample in digital media). Can you manipulate play head scrub in the Remix Decks?
I’m guessing that the Remix Decks aren’t really doing it for people then? Are most of you still mixing 2 tracks together then?
Personally speaking, I looked at what the Remix Decks could offer me, saw that Maschine was more of what I was looking for (a lot more control for only $150 more), and decided to go that route, even if using Maschine and Traktor together wasn’t a native connection (inputs are through the Live Line Track), using these two programs together seemed better to me than using the F1 on the Remix Decks, inside Traktor…seems ironic, hunh?
I still have lots to learn about Maschine, but I am hoping that Traktor will include something like a “track drop-down selection module” (like the Live, Track, and Sample Deck options) that makes use of Maschine inside Traktor with two-way software communication to make software/hardware integration much easier.
hey guys, i love the remix deck. the fact that you can’t really adjust the phase of a loop in the remix deck bothers me. if the set you load isn’t a set of samples made for the remix deck, the slack at the beginning of the sample puts it out of time. the solution that i found for this was maschine. as a loop export option you can select to optimize loop for the traktor remix deck and assemble a remix set from that. it should keep everything running smoothly.
right now i do a lot of track deck A to B, but tend to work in remix sets into my DnB as i have a few produced remix set packs from NuTone, calibre, netsky…
i’ll end up incorporating the remix deck into my sets more once i wrap my head around komplete and maschine a bit more, but for right now i can’t see my X1 or my pair of 900’s going anywhere.
Once he wraps his head around Komplete and Maschine he says… (heh)
I was doing this (sampling a loop and dropping it back into Traktor) *right before* I decided to drop the Remix Decks altogether. I now use a Live Deck for the mic, a Live Deck for Maschine and two Track Decks (when I’m not using all four decks as Track Decks). You just leave the loops and samples you’ve created (internally and externally) in Maschine… you can even real-time tweak (and bounce-down) the loops inside Maschine.
All I’m saying is breathe, trust in yourself (and the gear), let go of the Remix Decks, and let your fingers work the magic.
I know you can do this.
:D
This is my stock answer everytime the “DJ as live remixer” comes up: no matter how much they streamline the process, and no matter how intuitive they make it, it’s impossible to get around the fact that most good remixes (for that matter most good edits of anything) took a lot of time and work to make.
In my opinion, you almost never add anything to a track, or to a night, by, just because you can, looping lots of parts of it over itself and then warming it all over with effects. (On a related note, loops and effects have greatly diminishing returns after the first or second one applied.)
The natural extension of this discussion is: OK, so what if somebody works really hard with a track or two, and ultimately comes up with a polished routine that truly is an improvement over the original? At that point, my question becomes: what’s the benefit of doing that all live? Why not just “print” it as a remix (at which point you can refine it further)?
The possible justifications for bothering to do it live, as I see them, are:
1) Somebody doing their controllerism routine live is impressive. I think that’s a somewhat valid point, but I think controllerism is just never going to be nearly as impressive to watch as old-school DMC stuff. (I’m not saying it’s not as difficult, just not as viscerally impressive.)
2) If you’re doing it live, there’s room to improvise. I spent years in the early 2000’s travelling this road (usually hacking things and writing my own middleware to do so) and, long story short, I found this notion to be a massive case of diminishing returns. The more polished and refined you make the “remix”, the more rigidly you’re going to end up following a score. And, for my part, I decided lots of filter sweeps/beat repeat/etc — in other words the stuff I could do in real time over the top — weren’t adding anything and if anything were detracting.
$0.02,
rs
Where have you ever seen someone rock a 2-4 hour set doing this?… and why would you want to?
for me personaly remix decks are ok to use here and there in sets just like adding loops , melodies or samples only where it`s needed, not overloading because in the end kontrol f1 is ADD ON controller and that`s how i use it to play house & techno sets as the add on controll , i think it`s better option than playing for example 4 deck sets , i tried that but it never made sense in club environment.
mixing two tracks that work together are law in the club and it will stay that way for a long time , but adding some cherry on top if you know how can make it even more fun … BUT OVERLOADING IS DJs ENEMY :)
the remix decks as sick as fuck. I use them and only them, not track decks. You can take shit to the next level with these no doubt. I used to use ableton live, now that I discovered these, ableton stays in the studio.
I had a question that I hope someone can answer.. Can you trigger more than 4 sounds/loops at once in the F1/Remix Decks?
Also, I wonder if anyone can tell me if the F1 would work with the DDJ SX if I use Traktor? I think it does but not sure.
You can “capture” all four, and play as a single loop…
But can you do this be live?
I can imagine someone taking advantage of the new Stems format and creating a tool to be able remix deck sets from the individual stems themselves. Maybe even NI can add remix deck functionality to them by allowing individual stems to play as normal while one or two can be operated in a remix deck mode format, possibly even using segments of the same stems instead of separate individual samples.