John Beez Fretless fader 2016

John Beez is back — new fretless fader kit coming

https://www.facebook.com/fretlessfader/videos/1701176903495287/

Just about seven years ago to the day, we exclusively posted the very first video of the fretless fader from John Beez. He came, he saw, he dropped another video (love that Thes One beat), and then disappeared into the shadows, leaving an entire turntablist scene pining for a version that they could actually own and not just watch. The scene waited… and waited… but John Beez had retreated back to his lab. In the meantime, many had picked up the gauntlet and brought forth their own variations on the original theme. But now John Beez is back with a reworked fretless fader that doesn’t require Vestax 06 dissection, and appears to work on any mixer with enough faceplate real estate, and probable minimal modding.

The Facebook page that popped up yesterday hosts just one video and no information. We’ve reached out to John Beez to get more information, but in the meantime, let’s see of we can work out what’s happening here.

The first very obvious thing — the Z2 mixer hasn’t been butchered, but instead the fretless fader and slider sit on top. We can see that a ribbon cable runs from the fretless fader to the inside of the mixer, but outside of that we’re guessing. So let’s do just that.

John Beez Fretless fader 2016

Because the Z2 has retained its innards, my guess is that the box with the screen at the top is the brains of this outfit. I reckon that a cable runs inside the Z2 from the slider to the custom box. This box directly controls the pitch of the Controller One, and has selectable scales — indeed when John turns the knob, the display changes from minor to minor pentatonic to blues, and the Controller One static pitch changes to reflect this.

So my guess is that this new fretless fader kit consists of a fader (probably Mini Innofader judging by the red line on the cap), a slider rig, and an external brain that talks to the turntable. It’s very clever because it probably eliminates the need for heavy modding and thus wrecking the mixer, and means that you can move the fretless fader around mixers without doing much more than plugging in the crossfader ribbon cable. It’s a very smart solution, that remains elegant and practical because of the Mini Innofader’s low profile.

THE IMPORTANT THING TO REMEMBER

While we all might get giddy about the fretless fader and its possibilities, it’s vital that you remember one vital caveat with this and others like it — this depends on MIDI control over the turntable’s pitch, so it’s only going to work with Vestax PDX-3000 and above models, and the Vestax Controller One. There is a mod for PDX-2000s that was a kit but is now just instructions only, but I’m not aware of any such mods for other turntables. As a guide, I couldn’t find a single Vestax PDX-3000 on eBay UK. And good luck ever getting a Controller One for less than both kidneys.

I guess that this is me sending a message to Hanpin via whichever manufacturer reads this — please work on a MIDI mod for your motors. I’m not saying add it as standard, but if it’s easy enough to do, it’s a USP that no other current turntable has. You’ll definitely win friends in the scratch scene. And DJ Tech — this is right up your street to add into the LF12, should it ever reach the market.

John Beez Fretless fader 2016

I DOFF MY HAT TO JOHN BEEZ

I did fear that he’d gone forever. But if ever there was a way to come back, this is it. Because of the limited market, I’m not expecting the kit to be cheap, but at least it does appear to be something that even the most feint-hearted of technophobes can buy and use.

We’ll have more news on this new version of the original fretless fader in due course.

  1. Well, probably if it would send pitch information via usb, then changing tones could be done internally in DVS (in traktor it’s possible). And speed of turntable platter could be in this scenario same for every note. Am i right or missing something?

    1. I think you´re right. I´ve been looking for a suitable controller that just has pads (about the size of the F1 pads) that could be mapped to the key function in Traktor. So you´d have a digital patchwork version of a Controller One but I couldn´t find anything useful unfortunately. Every pad based controller just takes away too much space imo if you put it between mixer and turntable… Still hoping someone puts out a new version of the Quickswitch controller Ruckazoid uses in his videos.

  2. I think technology like this should be implemented inside DJ software in a way to allow for users to change the pitch of scratch sample in an easy and intuitive way. That would really take turntablism to the next level and also help it gain a broader audience.

  3. If you take the crossfader part (design box and rails) and go into a pitchshifter pedal (us600 from behringer ie) you could do this with any turntable… Or sound sourc like mpc…

    It took so long but in addition it is still very limited.

  4. all anyone has to do is take dj woody’s pitch shifter idea (mounting the fader onto the slider) and apply that to the volume faders on the z2. then map the volume faders to the key knob on traktor. done.

    1. From what I can see that’s effectively what John Beez has done, with the addition of a box which displays the scale being used (+ a few other goodies I’m sure). This is totally genius in it’s simplicity compared to the level of analogue hackery required in his original version. From what I can see though, it’s not a DVS record he’s scraching but rather custom pressed tone record, which would make it an analogue sound controlled digitally rather than a totally digital setup.

      1. Negative, John Beez isn’t using traktor at all, everything is through that box and instead of using the faders on the z2, it is an external unit on top of the z2; the video just makes it look like that. John Beez’ setup is completely analogue, nothing through dvs

  5. Really really pleased to see this is back! It’s entirely Jon Beez’s fault that I picked up a pair of PDX 3000’s back when the fretless fader had its second spot of lime light 4ish+ years ago. Can’t wait to get my hands on a fretless kit :)

    In response to the comments mentioning Traktors key knob –

    A while back my midi mapping friends and I experimented mapping semitone increments to traktors pitch/key function for similar activities to what’s been mentioned, It’s a mixed result tbh, Traktors key “lock on” with scratching isn’t really good in practice (imo) as the key/pitch locks at the point where the amount is set to, until record movement pass’s a 50% +/- threshold(I think it’s 50%). This results in unrealistic sound and feel with the pitch of the sample as Traktor maintains and kinda fights to hold the selected pitch/key until record movement pass’s the key locked threshold.

    Key/pitch wheel features in Traktor need to be tweaked so that when you scratch, the pitch of sample is adjusted correctly from the key it was manipulated from. As it stands mapping semitones in Traktor works great for controllerism type stuff, but doesn’t quite function as well as it could with DVS.

    I’m unsure how Serato implements it’s key/pitch lock on scratching features.

    Will both NI and Serato kindly do the honourable thing and make your key adjust features play friendly with fretless fader/note changes while scratching pretty please!

    Having user selectable scales while scratching is endlessly fun for jamming and freestyle cut sessions, but having Software manipulate the sample key instead of the rpm of the platter would definitely widen the landscape of what’s possible when cutting up scales/notes. Jus make a DVS synth plugin init ;)

    1. Another method would be to use Ms Pinky, a free DVS patch for Ableton which runs through Max for Live. Using the midi signal from the fretless, you may be able to set Ableton to midi learn and change the notes, pitch or scale of the tone of whatever session clip you’re playing, thus there’s little need for a midi turntable. Furthermore if the tone being manipulated is synth-generated from within Ableton then extreme pitch shifts could be done without artifacts. Ms Pinky was originally written for Ableton 8 with the last update coming out circa 2011…. I have no idea about its comparability with later versions, it may just work though.

      1. With maxforlive it could be possible to do anything. Since Max7 come even Ableton has becoming redundant… But on topic…
        It could be possible to write an entirely mixtape thing, syntable thing, remix deck thing, video thing… And turntable, fretless or whatever as input.
        Ms Pinky was originally written for Maxmsp (I think it was 4 version) and lately ported into maxforlive enviroment (only needed to change aspects from UI to make it compatible but also lost the multiple audio route due to the limitation in maxforlive instruments devices) with the new Max7 and recoding work from Scott Wardle to keep the “object” 32/64 bits compatible.
        The problem was and still is: developers. Usually turntablist users aren’t friendly with this kind of innovations… How long is taking fretless to release? How many interest (and how many was lost in the process)? How many djs will need something like this (and how many of them can live without it and go straightforward for traktor in the case of samoling/looping/scratching)?
        So, possible is more than ever but we need maxforlive coders and true use for the technology or coders interested in “deal” with this “concept”. At Ms. Pinky forums are lots of contributions and walkthrought for these coders if they appear but in 10 years I never get some involved in full process (from skratch surgeon to scratchML) and meanwhile Aaron Leese made an extraordinay work with his plugins and soft, but again people look at Traktor/Serato for stability meanwhile demand “freakthingas” like this… It is not going to code by itself and bigboys aren’t interested in nothing than “those” which could rentabilize…
        Anyways if someone is interested I could upload and debate my resources to find a path.

    2. Thanks for the heads up! Too bad that it doesn´t work that well with scratching (yet), guess it´s more for something like cue point juggling then…

      A DVS synth plugin is something I´d like to see from a tight Maschine integration in Traktor, something like a Maschine Deck where you can record a pattern/bar with your Maschine Controller and then instantly tweak it with your control vinyl. And when on top of that you´d be able to record into a slot of a Remix Deck, then we´re talking serious business.
      Having the Fretless Fader on top of that would be a disaster for every relationship with a turntablist ;)

      1. Yeah dude I love the idea combining DVS into software instruments, be it a sampler or a synth, your maschine – remix deck – DVS thang would be so dope.

        As much as I’m sure it’s pos to make something like this we’re still in the era where digi tech is mostly imitating it’s old school counterparts as 90% of consumers shit them selfs when manufacturers dare to step out of the box :(

        1. True story unfortunately…. When you see people like SirCut for example with his idea of Synthtablism where he controls different parameters of a modular analog synth with the timecode signal, imagine the possibilities if you could control/assign the timecode signal/record motion to a virtual instrument like Massive or Kontakt and then “gettin´jiggy with it”.

          1. Ms Pinky sends midi/Osc since few years ago. Max is the modular environment in coding realm with lots of devices to connect inner and outer space (from raw data, cv, midi, osc… To audio, light, video…)
            So, that’s it. Start coding.

            1. Having Traktor within Maschine as a VST plugin was also an idea that crossed my mind ;) Wouldn´t even need all the functions that the standalone app has…

              Even though I´m interested in lots of stuff I´m a user, not a developer. I´ll willingly alpha and beat test any usefull tools but developing one myself from scratch, well, it´s not gonna happen :) I can´t even build my own Midi controller…

        1. I know this video and it´s ok when you´re in the studio preparing but I wouldn´t try that in a live situation. To me it´s just a workaround from what could be possible and what would be more fun if you had a Maschine Deck in Traktor instead of just being able to sync your Maschine to the tempo of Traktor.

          1. Sure but I undestand it as “make it in this way guys and don’t mesh or expect integration. D2 is your live maschine deck”

            About fun or not funny, well I lost interest in “whoa setups” and focus more in “good music” and I think/feel NI thinks that’s “the future of sound”.

            I only was trying to point that you request is more or less cappable with loop recorder inside Traktor and midi sequencing is not in the NI interest (also check traxus interactive lemur template to have some similar to digital warrior/mf twister)

            1. I hear you, it´s easy to get lost in too many options/plugins/controllers etc. while using only the basic equipment tends to be more productive.
              And I also know that there will never be a software/hardware unit that fits everybodie´s needs especially when you have people from various backgrounds.

              The loop recorder in Traktor though is completely useless for anything scratch based since the crossfader movement doesn´t get recorded. Total bummer…
              We´ll see where NI is going once Traktor Srcatch Pro 3 gets released but I remember reading something of a beter Maschine integration. I´m not getting my hopes up, just stating what I personally would like to be able to do. If it´s not made possible I´ll still do my thing…

              1. Yes, xfade movement is the other thing possible and useful… That’s the ttm part of the equation all doable in max but still not implemented in any software (only scratch track supports dvs automation and could do the trick with Ableton xfader). FLstudio has some things in the way but nothing dvs related (wave traveler, grossbeat?) In other hand vinyl lab/livetronika is focused towards live remixing/looping/key with dvs control… Interesting? Decide by yourself.

                Tools are out there and if them not suits to you some of them give us the chance to rewrite them. Maybe in the future it will write themselves too ;)

              2. Gotta jump in on the loop recorder being completely useless comment :)

                Internal Mode Traktor allows for post fade sampling of the master output, but sadly can only pre fade sample from individual channels via the cue/headphone buss output. Here’s a quick vid where I use the loop recorder to build basic backing track to cut over.

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgvtn82RMU0

                When Traktor is in External Mode you sample from the hardware fx loop of the mixer your routing your NI sound card to. This gives individual post fade sampling to what ever source your hardware fx loop is sent through. Heres a vid I made using Traktor in external mode to build a loop track.

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx8qyamBCZ8

                Both Internal and external mode loop recorder sampling have pros and cons. External mode is limited by the fx loop features of the hardware/mixer your using, ain’t many scratch mixers that adequately boost Traktors quiet I/0 thats used for sampling. I’ve pretty much experimented with every fx loop loaded battle mixer going and the 05 IV IMO is best built for Trtaktors external mode, that mixer has all the necessary bells and whistles to max the use of Traktors send fx and loop recorder.

                Internal mode, like with the Z2 for instance jus needs to be tweaked to allow post fade sampling of independent channels making it instantly more powerful compared to external mode sampling for reasons that I should no longer be prattling on about :)

                1. You can do a lot with external hardware, routing etc ;) But why does it have to be that “complicated” when it could be done within the software? And the looper could also use a little count in as well imo :)

                  Nice videos btw.

        1. The joke is waiting for 10 years or more for something but at the same time try to make believe turntablism is relevant on 2020. Maybe isn’t “dead” but totally niche and djs still not get it… portablism the next frontier? Digital turntables? Welcome to the past. All of these was done and reject by turntablist themselves (sad, very sad…)

  6. The suspense is killing me! According to the facebook site, this latest incarnation of the fretless fader:

    “…transforms an ordinary DJ mixer into the ultimate turntablist instrument…”

    This suggests to me that that it can be retrofitted to non-dvs mixers. It just happens to be that he’s using a DVS capable mixer for the demonstration. I can’t wait to get more explanation from the man himself on how it all works!

  7. Looks like the mixer output is running through the fader. It limits the mixer to one deck mainly, but that’s fine with me. I’ve got a CDX and a couple old mixers waiting.

  8. Well it’s been over a month now since the new fretless fader video went online. In typical John Beez fashion the video got posted, a whole bunch of people got super-excited about it actually finally going into production… an then nothing. As usual. *slow hand clap*

    1. Most manufacturers announce and then get product on the shelves anywhere between 1-12 months later (even longer for some), and that’s with factories, retailers, staff, and pots of money at their disposal.

      John however is just one guy, making a very niche high quality product the best way he can. I suspect that in the flurry of fretless fader activity, he felt it to be the best time to show what he’s been up to and t gauge potential demand.

      1. True. However a little more information taking about what’s actually happening would be nice to keep the interest high. I just hope it doesn’t go the direction of the Technics SL-DZ1200 or the Nokia 9210 which floated videos and pictures for years and were just disappointments when they finally dropped. Maintaining dialogue with your potential customers would be very beneficial for such a niche product.