59 Comments

1. How open is the mapping file? Is it like Serato Scratches old, easy to edit .xml (programmers dream) or an obfuscated mess that forces you to use their GUI like traktor?

2. Pioneer if you’re listening or reading I have a WeGO Mk1 that would love to get some use if you supported it. You would then most likely have a client right here. otherwise I’ll wait.

3. Who would want to ? Can’t see Serato users moving to RBDJ.

   • That might be true of DVS, but future Pioneer DJ controllers won’t have have Serato DJ compatibility. The DDJ-RX and RZ show that. When the next round of Pioneer DJ übershiny hits, let’s see how long people pledge allegiance to Serato DJ.

     • I feel that you’re right on the money Mark. Pioneer will continue to support the current products however the updates will be Rekordbox only.

   • I did the update yesterday and played a 2 hour set to stress test it. I opened a prep playlist with just under 1600 tracks, RBDJ didn’t crash. From the timeline put out at the end of last year, we should see DVS by April or so. From what I can see, there isn’t too much that Serato can do that Rekordbox DJ can’t. There are a few wrinkles to iron out; but considering how new Rekordbox DJ is to the market; it surprises me as to how stable it is.

     • We were told February for DVS. It’s working but I would expect Maybe March, or even April just to be safe. Much of it depends on what Serato has in store. It’s a bit of an arms race right now.

       • I must admit Rekordbox DJ is a lot of fun, but I find that I’m still using Traktor when I’m at the radio station. I find the HTML format for exporting history easier to copy/paste into show logs. A couple more updates and it should be sufficiently polished. Thank you and the crew for the awesome Worxmas present!

     • I still have a little audio hikups when I use it for an hour. And it is not the latency. I Have a macbookpro with 2,7 gig prossesor and 8 gig ram. 2 CDJ2000nexus and a DJM2000. The DJM2000 is also my audio device. What can it be? The hikups come only when I am loading tracks to the players.

       • I’m running Win10 and have had a few weird issues as well. The first track that I load sometimes won’t. I can press the Cue button and hear audio, but no waveform shows on the screen and the deck says that it’s not loaded. It’ll have a few issues for a while… after all, it did only come out last September.

     • But Oddie, the software was tested by beta users. Why they didn’t notice that? If a big company like Pioneer DJ come out with software like this. They should test it good. but you now DJ’s want to use it in public. You can not allowed to have audio breakouts with it.

       • I agree software updates should “work” when they get pushed out, but far too often companies push their developers to meet a deadline. I remember quite a few updates from other software companies that created a lot of problems. Traktor 2.6 to 2.8 was pretty sketchy, same with some of the Ableton updates in 5,6 and 7. As far as I’ve heard from friends that use Serato, they still have loading issues with playlists that are too big… it’s not just Pioneer.
         Considering Rekordbox 3 came out without Mixvibe being involved and that the DJ portion of the software has been released to the public over the past 5 months, they aren’t doing too bad. At least MIDI mapping is a step forward.

4. So I’ve been doing some more digging under the hood. Opening up the rekordbox package on OS X shows a heap of midi mappings for Pioneer DJ hardware in CSV format (you can open right into a spreadsheet). These mappings include options not currently supported in the initial MIDI support, such as jogwheel support.

   As an experiment, I duplicated the WeGO3 file, renamed it to be a plain old WeGO one, edited the device reference in the file, and imported it into rekordbox to run with an original WeGO. On the whole it worked just fine — all buttons, knobs, and sliders worked, but the jogwheels didn’t.

   When I checked the imported mapping, it looks like rekordbox filtered out some of the commands not currently supported i.e. jogwheels etc. So I took an alternative and more direct approach, and dropped the renamed mapping right into the rekordbox package alongside all the supported ones, hoping that it would be recognised at boot up. No.

   At this point, it looks like the device has to be authorised by name within rekordbox to get access to the more advanced features. I couldn’t find references in regular files, but disassembling the rekordbox code appears to reveal tables of supported Pioneer MIDI devices. My next step would be to directly edit code (change all references to WeGO from WeGO3), but I’d probably break things, and it’s clear that Pioneer DJ doesn’t want people to fully map just yet.

   So for now, I’m thinking that for now the only full jogwheel controllers supported in rekordbox DJ will be Pioneer DJ ones, and everything else will be limited to buttons, knobs, and sliders i.e. just like Serato’s secondary controller support. Boo. This might however indicate that Pioneer DJ may well undertake officially mapping popular devices to offer plug and play support.

   DISCLAIMER: Note the heavy use of might, may, and other tentative language. This is my opinion, and not fact.

   • I wonder if they treat access to jog functions similar to how NI treat Scratch compatibility?

   • I guess in order to be a DJay these days you also have to be a computer programmer it seems.

     • annd..the really frustrating element of that feeling is thinking of all the time spent “programming” yhat could otherwise be devoted to listening to music, of digging, or remixing, etc.

   • TWhat a load of horse stink. Reminds me of Traktor refusing to send midi output for remix cell color and such. The CSV format is very encouraging though, potentially allows us to write up a script that iterates all the commands for each deck so we only have to sit down and map one by hand, letting the script/math do the rest (as opposed to the 1300 mappings i had to had insert via mouse click for my Traktor Lemur template)

   • At least we can repurpose things like an X1 for use with RBDJ.

   • Flashing the WeGo with a WeGo3 usb id ?

   • Good work Mark! Let me know if your next step will work! thanx

5. “and it’s his that is usually the sticking point for any software with MIDI learn.”

   Hey Mark, is this ‘HID’? I think so but have to check as HID makes more sense.

   • I’m guessing that it is. All I know is that the entries specific to jogwheel use get filtered out on import.

6. Blah, Blah, Blah… Why not Plug and Play like VDJ8? Most DJ’s end up having to become MIDI experts because the hardware companies are too cheap and lazy to do the R&D themselves, for their software to function with popular hardware that might not be of the same brand. IDK given the choice between plugging in a controller and having everything work and be recognized, or setting up dozens of MIDI parameters? And this is supposed to be progress? Most folks are Dejays not MIDI programmers.

   • That’s not the case at all. Every company puts out a hardware and software combination that works in total harmony. True plug and play — no other experience needed to set it up.

     Because hardware is usually designed with a particular software package in mind, mapping other software to it is always a compromise. Not only that, but officially supporting say VDJ on a Pioneer DJ controller opens up a world of support pain where the buyer can’t get something to work, and all the manufacturers blame each other. So the hardware generally officially only supports one piece of software, and if you want to map it, you can but it’s on you.

     As far as VirtualDJ 8 goes — they don’t make hardware. Their revenue stream is purely software, so it’s in their interests to make every piece of hardware plug and play with VDJ8 so that their software is more attractive to everyone.

   • you do know that many of the controllers that are mapped for VDJ are not mapped Atomix but by their forum members then get officially supported in future versions. some controllers take months from release before they get official support stamp from VDJ. with PioneerDJ there is an easy GUI for mapping and you can import export, so there is no stopping a community of pioneerDj mapping sharing.

     • That explains the lack of VDJ support for my NS7 III that I’ve had since November. :)

       • the guy you want you want to talk to in vdj forums is called cstoll.

         • Thanks

   • i agree, and disagree.
     having to become a midi mapping expert is not something i ever wanted to do.
     i do, however, prefer the opportunity to change and define the controls.
     this issue gets right to the heart of one of the biggest problems since the advent of “digital” djing; good ideas hamstrung by poor implementation leading to the “idea” being perceived as bad.
     the way ‘the one’ does mapping is good.
     vdj seems to have gone from difficult, to easy, and now difficult again(i dont even bother now)

     but yes, overly unneccessarily difficult mapping systems contributed to my decision (not solely, but partially) to go back to digital players like the cdx, hdx, 3900, and 5500. (would also love one of yhose modded sl-dzs)

     • And I just got rid of my 3900’s :(

       • ive gotten two used ones, both were defective, still looking.
         Serato should be trying to make a branded copy of the 3900. so much about it is right.
         I’d remove many of the buttons, put more brains inside, and outboard most of the new button functions to an auxiliary device.

   • Using A Pioneer DJM-T1 with Serato DJ I can tell you that my mapping is very unique (A and B are not symmetrical) and it really fit how I use my gear.

     You will never see any hardware manufacturers offering something that is truly perfect for the taste of each one. We have to make a compromise to use what they have designed.
     This is one of the reason I don’t use CDJ for instance, that hotloop rec-play/red-green is one of the most stupid things I have ever see since 2 decades (but they finally manage to get rid of this on the Nexus 2).

     Having the ability to bend the layout as you wish is very powerful, even the guys at Serato couldn’t understand this for years, you couldn’t remap your Serato device. (still not ?)

     When you take the NI boat, you can add your own layer over the factory mapping : brillant !

     There is a little slop to learn that midi thing but once you’ve got it, it is very usefull. Unfortunately most of these midi editor are full of bugs and not that well documented, so sometimes you’re on your own for debugging or finding a work around till they get it fixed (if they care and can…)

     • Thanks for the reply. I’ve been picky as well. I refused to use Serato for the longest, because it didn’t have a search button next to each MP3 tag entry for the track list like Traktor. Want to search for that artist? Just click on the magnifying glass next to the Artist’s name on the song list.

7. wonder if Numark ns II will be mappable …. just to give a try.
   Or, if someone mapped it, could the mapping shared and imported?

   • no jog wheel mapping for non-pioneer hardware.

8. This is a BIG deal. Either Pioneer is making controllers/All-In-Ones “club acceptable” or they’re making RB the defacto dj app. Maybe both. Regardless, now Pioneer has a direct path to get and keep DJs in their ecosystem from beginners all the way to experts. What other DJ company can do that?

   • Other companies such Ableton or Traktor has gained traction from mixing to them giving to the users remixing and composition tools. Could do Pioneer do the same? Wants to? Where is the money at?

     Pioneer bet for clubbing and some bedroom mixing djs (now a bit more seq and pushbuttoning)

     Ableton bet for live producing, live acting, interactivity and visualization (max and arduino remote script soon) etc…

     Native from beat producing and scratching to live remixing and mashing up.

     Different workflow same target. How is going to evolve the market? Who will be more flexible to keep users with it? Probably all of these until market merge or the gap make these really different market niche. The thing is Pioneer is investing lots of money to be relevant where Live/Traktor/Maschine are the kings…

9. So RecordBox PRO doesn’t come with any of the hardware correct? It’s an additional purchase?

   • Rekordbox DJ is $130, but is usable with cdj 350, 400, 850, 900, 2000 (with their NXS counterparts), the XDJ 700 and 1000. The equivalent package from Serato (software only) is the club kit, on sale right now for $169… usually about $230.

     • But with NI Controllers you get Traktor Pro. And most other hardware controllers you get Serato DJ.

       At the price they charge for their gear they should include it. Especially if they want to get people to use it.

       I’m not switching to it but was just an observation.

       • Here is the big trade off, with a controller you are tethered to a laptop. If my laptop fails, I still have the advantage of playing off cd or usb stick. The NI and Serato controllers with integrated audio interface at that point are just shiny paperweights.

         • Not true, the S8 has external options and a lot of controllers have external inputs, so if you software fails your not SOL.

           • I don’t think that you are understanding my point, the S8 and controllers aren’t multi-players and do not play music without the use of a computer. That’s what the big money is for, software is just an extra.

             • Native Instruments understood in the past where the money is.
               Meanwhile Pioneer started to look at djs like more than “jukebox” and tools for remixing touch the players, Serato started to look at djs like more than a “Jazzy Jeff” paradigm (with all my respect to him but there is more room for grow) and integrated itch2 in newcoming SSL which resulted in Sdj and remixing tools.

               Traktor meanwhile understood that “The future of sound” was Ableton Live and started implementenig some functions from Maschine/Ableton inside Traktor instead of make partnerships making it dependant from the partner.

               We have in front of us two scenarios merging. The old mindset A>B mixing (Pio&Serato) against Live Remixing (Ableton&Traktor Remix decks/Stems)

               Native understood from Ableton growth the most common workflow and the worst deals: Produce at home, remix at stage; Each tool for each place.
               F1/D2 are the counterpart to maschine at gigs for djs. Ableton traveled from launchpad/apc40 to Push (making an instrument to compete maschine and still be playable at Live gigs but not turntables…)

               Finally we have the turntable love/hate on and on (the last videos in NI channel pointing to Love to compense the D2 not jog controversy blahblah) but Traktor understood how the “Technics era” was unbetteable (scs.1d was compatible one version with 14bits sysex midi support dropped after them broke with Stanton…)

               So, choose your workflow and go straight without expecting miracles. There is no perfect solution for everyone so brands try to put the most common ones under one bet. Those made with computers have their drawbacks but evolve faster and adapt themselves better to disruptions in the market. That’s the point to Pioneer to make software. If Pioneer was the standard why them should do this movement?
               Right, times have changed and Pioneer only could survive spending money in keep themselves relevant…

               • I know a thing or two about software, but if you read above the thread was about RBDJ not being bundled with their players. The reason, because a multi player is a stand alone unit. If this was 10 years ago, it would be like getting Final Scratch with a Stanton turntable. The guy mentioned the stand alone function of an S8, my point was… Now, how do you play music off it without a player? The reason why I own a DJM 850 is to compensate for more than just the software that I choose to use, it makes it easier to book others for parties and the weekly radio show, without the need to bring their kit.

                 • Ok. It will make sense to me if Pioneer release a soundcard and give rkbx free with it. Meanwhile I will never try it been expensive than traktor.

                   Cdj and Pionner controllers support is irrelevant to someone like me and people who thinks in the same manner but obviously I’m not its target.

                   So I’m agreed with you about no necessary free copy with their hardware but disagree about S8 being a paperweights because it has aux in (right?) and if you plug it to electricity it keeps you from problems in restarting the laptop.
                   Not multimedia player but you are covered.

                   Different users, different gear.

                   • As stated above ” If my laptop fails, I still have the advantage of playing off cd or usb stick. The NI and Serato controllers with integrated audio interface at that point are just shiny paperweights.” The S8 may have lines in, but if it isn’t tethered to a laptop running Traktor it doesn’t make a sound. You still need a player of some kind at that point.

                   • Of course my mobile phone until macbook restarts. The point is “it is not a paperweight” and no need for expensive cdjs or useless software (due I’m not Pioneer user)

                     ;)

                   • You do realize that you’ve made my point for me. Audio is a type of media, when you play audio from a device it becomes a media player.
                     Hardware failure means that your laptop won’t restart. Believe me after my buddy had a beer spill on his, it had no part of wanting to start back up. Without that laptop your S8 is just as useful as my DJM, only it takes up more space. Without media players or laptops they are both shiny paperweights.
                     If you read a bit lower in the comment section I state that I still use Traktor when I’m at the radio station and thank Mark and crew for the Worxmas present that I got (a Rekordbox DJ licence).

                   • If catastrophe occurs the most important part of your setup will be an insurance police. Dead laptop is equal to kill your 2 cdjs, make the numbers. It is a matter of taste… And tools. I’m mostly agreed with you opinion not totally with extrem facts like beer spilling but let me explain about the tools.
                     My setup is first ipad based with is202 dock. I use it to compose live looping feeding it with mainstage from the mac mini. This week and next I’m dealing with modstep app to control loopyHD as playlist. I need this to control the loops with a footpedal in the way you can break songs (my own not mixing) into intro, phrase, bridge, chorus… And make my performance.
                     As a dj I will mix my own composed loops with some songs for session but not for clubs, to yoga centers or yoga fest. Strange I know.
                     For sessions I will try to sync modstep, djplayer and loopyHD and as “extra” media player I will buy another ipad (mini) with focusrite dock and probably mix all with some hardware mixer with fx send/return for my kaoss pad and vocoders.

                     I will keep my mac mini at home because ipads are cheaper if they be spilled with beer. Every ipad is a media player on its own like your cdjs… But I can live loop, charge synths, djplayer, makes some visuals, sample… Mail, fb or boom beach when I’m not “djing”. These cost in second hand from 250 to 350 plus dock. Are versatile and could broke without leaving me alone in the void.

                     I understand that my goals and tastes are unusual but ok for my job. I will not bring a 700€ machine to gigging but also not gigging on beer clubs. I can go with one ipad (live looping or backing tracks), 2 ipads (djing, vjing, live mashing, live looping visuals…) with 350 + 350 set and go further with the mac mini (mapping, arduinos and crazy things like this) My set is near to beardyman than Richie Hawtin so even Traktor is not relevant. Imagine Rkdbx…

                     Without laptop an S8 is still a basic mixer. Without ipad my set is nothing but it is my problem to have a B plan. Maybe I will purchase a cdj for this… Kidding, I will purchase an iphone and have 3 plenty of functions full players.

                     To me that’s the point. If I expent 300€ in any tool I expect to make the most with it even when in gigs I will let each one with one or two standalone functions like pure synth or sampler, modstep as midi stroker plus loopyHD, vidbox video sampling, etc…

                     So as I said, it will be cool pioneer releasing a soundcard to give users the traktor/serato option and make their software more relevant but as a complement for cdjs it is so far from me how make me feel worried about if it is free or not.
                     I will love to purchase an ipad pro, maybe I will sell the mini for the next version.

                   • Rekordbox DJ opens up the features of the Nexus to more basic models like the CDJ 350(which my daughter has), 400, 850, 900, 2000 and now you can midi map those functions to F1, if you really wanted to.
                     As for insurance for my laptop, it’s not needed… I’m a Network Engineer with an A+ cert. and an SMD solder station at home. I build my own desktops (Windows/Hackintosh dual boots) and repair my own laptops.

                   • Congrats.

   • For most Pioneer controllers, rekordbox DJ is an additional purchase. But it is bundled with the new DDJ-RX and RZ.

10. It is a really solid piece of software
    Strangely enough feels very similar to mix vibes

    Don’t know how similar the midi mapping is to mix vibes but it might be worth checking out to use some of their maps

11. has anyone worked out the option language contained in the CSV file? theres paramaters such as Fast, Priority, Max and Blink however i cant work out what they do. Im trying to figure out how to get LED Midi Out feedback for the X1 mk2 but so far nothings happening. in the controller editor i can set the LEDs to flash as i press the button. but they will not respond to the software settings at all. anyone? surely someone of a coding mind has worked this out…..?

    • I have the opposite issue, I get response from Rekordbox for another controller, yet, LEDs just flash temporarily and do not stay ON as they should.

12. Has someone tried to map the controller from the post’s picture ? Behringer cmd pl-1. I’ve been wondering if it’s jog will work with rekordbox.

13. @ Mark Settle – how did you get the LEDs to work on your CTRL? Thank you!

14. Gostaria de Usar a DDJ T1 No Recordbox, Existe mapping ?