We have some very interesting “what if” conversations in the team. And in an increasingly volatile market where we’re finding it hard to predict anything anymore, nothing is off the table when it comes to what ifs, especially given some of the not for public consumption things we’re aware of in the last few years. So let’s lay some groundwork to today’s question.
Looking back over the last few years, some of the industry’s favourite brands have gone, others have contracted or hibernated, and others are under new ownership. The remaining few are best buddies, arch enemies, or some mixture of both. Essentially it’s incredibly hard to call the future of any brand in the DJ business these days with any degree of certainty. One thing is for sure — the “(insert brand here) FOR LIFE” has never been more uncertain than it is today.
LOYALTY
We all have our favourites for all kinds of reasons. I like the brands and products that dare to be different, as well as those that put quality above all else. And while I definitely have pet brands, I find that I’m more focussed on individual products, and those products tend to be more left field than most. This penchant for expensive weird stuff means that many of my favourites are no longer made or sold.
So I’m in the situation where should my favourite mixer (Rodec Scratchbox) and turntable (Numark TTX) need replacing, I now have to look at alternatives. And while I’m sure I can get a solid replacement mixer, I fear I’ll have to resort to turntables that don’t offer what I want. Bugger. On a side note, isn’t it weird that turntables are getting more simple but at the same time more expensive?
But this is on a hardware level. Software wise, I prefer Serato DJ and djay Pro, but bearing in mind the job I have, and the fact that I don’t play out, I’m pretty fluid and could adapt to anything that came out. But for the rest of you who perhaps pay the mortgage with your sets, the idea of jumping ships isn’t something to be taken lightly. The very nature of software means a strong element tying you and your library (Rekord Buddy aside) to a particular app, and equally their specific workflow too.
WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
Imagine the situation where your DJ equipment gave up the ghost, or your favouite brand, for whatever reason, ceased to be. I’m sure some of you will guffaw at the very notion of your impossibly secure untouchable brand of choice here going to the wall, but anything is possible in our current climate.
Do you have contingency plan? Is there a plan B in place should the unthinkable happen? Will you keep using that software until your dying day? Or will you happily move to the next thing because your skills are entirely transferable? Or would you consider giving up DJing completely because your life is a barren void of nothingness and despair without your favourite DJ brand?
Just so you know this isn’t a harbinger of doom post. I asked Dan the same question, and it made him go silent for quite some time at the thought. So I figured it would be a good one to open up to you lot.
Image courtesy of CenterfortheArtsEagleRock.
I’d be screwed if Traktor disappeared… Hardware is less of an issue (especially analogue gear). A Xone mixer should last for years and there’s plenty of spares available. Not so good if drivers are involved, though (se my article about built in audio interfaces).
Yup, you buy a mixer with build in audio interface and you end up with a mixer with non-working audio interface the moment your mixer is a discontinued product because – surprise!, Apple fracked up Core Audio again in the new MacOS and your manufacturer won’t pay a outsourced team for firmware/driver fix.
That reminds me – thank you Denon, from all X600/X1600/1700 users. We won’t make the same mistake with your X1800 ;)
This.
This is why going the opposite direction is a better option.. Find old hardware that supports the device and keep the os that supports it on there.. no upgrades. no updates.. just the most rock solid drivers available for that device.
It would hurt a little, but it would be more about the loss of hours put into track preparation and the investment into a D2. When I bought a mixer, I decided on a DJM 850 as the club kit for Serato was announced. I figured that other than allowing me to be flexible in the software that I use, it would be flexible enough in function for my friends to use as well and be a familiar enough format for the friends that I have that play larger clubs and festivals.
Track prep isn’t an issue thanks to Rekord buddy 2. Mine is an issue of workflow. I use a pair of X1 mk2s, sometimes a F1, and occasionally a Z1, and an Audio 10. I use four decks with beat sync. The closest Serato has would be the Akai AFX. Which is discontinued, and costs £350 for one.
At least you’d be able to remap most of the functionality for a couple pieces of software like VDJ and Cross, although you’d lose a lot of features that you are used to. Although, to be honest… I have a feeling that NI would be one of the last DJ software companies to go down. They could stop making Traktor and they’d still be making money from DVS.
Get the new Rane mixer and a pair of the VL12’s and you’ll be set
Until Serato goes bankrupt…
use mixxx
https://www.mixxx.org/
It’s cool even when they can give support to screens (like vdj) but when you expent 1800€ for a new Rane mixer with built in screen to see the software… you expect to use that software. To use mixxx the last Rane mixer maybe isn’t the better option IMO.
Also drivers (for the screen) could be discontinnued and mixxx can’t fix that…
support for hardware is the reason i gave up on all things reloop. my favourite piece of controller was their contour interface/controller. 4 channels, slim, would fit perfectly in one local afterhours spot where the regular setup was so trashed that i could only reliably use the mixer (and even then, just the faders and eq because all other buttons would stick or not engage etc). so bringing a controller in a small booth was difficult and i bought it just for this one purpose. but only 2 years after the thing came out, apple had a new os and it became useless. but that’s enough for me to not trust some manufacturers.
and these days i think there are other platforms to choose from. but there should be a library standard so you can use all kinds of gear, from laptops running serato or traktor to denon or pioneer hardware. that would also be good for business in general because people could mix and match gear to get a better workflow that suits their needs without feeling trapped in one ecosystem
Love their RP-8000S TT with the integrated Serato Controls tho!
The RP-8000 is the turntable I want.. I’d actually rather have something like the Rane 12 and just a really nice analogue turntable for listening and ripping.. But if I was going to get an analogue DJ turntable it would be something very close to the 8000.
The RP-8000 has a switch to play either analogue OR Digital for DVS..another thing that makes this TT so nice…I love: being able to browse and load from the TT and having my BPM show up on the pitch fader screen…basically means I can work side to side and not need to get too much laptop face.
I’m not sure I understand what you mean.. As far as I know the RP-8000 is an analogue turntable with midi control capabilities.. A switch wouldn’t really do anything to make it analogue or digital.. since the DVS is being controlled by an analogue signal.. Do you mean it has a phono/line switch allowing you to plug it into either a CD input or a phono input?
Check the spec!
There is a switch on the back of the TT that switches the signal from “Phono” to “line” out since it matters not to the control tone signal then change your DVS setting in SDJ to CDJs and the TTs function as normal…with the exception of braking FX…pretty bad ass feature and not one I see on other TTs!
“pretty bad ass feature and not one I see on other TTs!” Stanton ST-150’s and STR8-150’s both have this feature as well.
When I read his comment, I thought to myself “Hey, my STR8 150s have a lift switch”.
Mmm.. yeah… Thats.. what I was asking you about it being an “analogue/digital” device.. I think we might have a difference of opinion as to what “digital” means.. Are you saying that in line out mode you can use the turntable without DVS records in serato? Because otherwise.. It’s just a phono/line switch.. Nothing particularly “digital” about it. [just checked] Yeah, that’s just a phono/line switch. Doesn’t have anything to to with a digital signal.. It deals with the output level of the turntable. Bog standard TTs have a VERY low output. Hence the need for a phono preamp in hi-fi setups and most DJ mixers. CDs and anything else have line level outputs. All that switch does is turn on the turntables internal phono preamp. I hope this clears up your confusion.
It’s not entirely useless.. Win PCs have gotten to the point where even ones that are a couple of years old and not very optimized are feasible for DJing a two channel set.. Find an old windows laptop that supports your device and keep drivers and windows updates to a minimum.
I try to keep redundancies… both hardware and software. 2 laptops, one as a main and the other as a POS backup. 2 sets of players in case there are issues, I can switch to HID if there are issues with DVS and a D2… just in case of emergencies. An A10 in case there are issues with my DJM drivers. I’m currently saving for a small 2 channel mixer as that is the only piece of hardware that I don’t have a redundancy, it would be nice to keep the Pio kit in its coffin case, ready to go and keep the turntables at home as much as possible without having to disconnect them from the DJM on a weekly basis.
I currently have Traktor as my main software, but also I’ve also installed and become familiar with Serato, Rekordbox DJ and Cross. For transferring .nml files from Traktor to a Rekordbox friendly format, I use the Mixvibes software. Serato has been a cold start, but everything else has been pretty easy to switch back and forth.
Mixvibes will transfer Traktor .nml to Rekordbox files???
It’s one of the reasons why I bought it, other than a nice fall back for those not too stable Traktor updates.
http://forum.mixvibes.com/viewtopic.php?t=28056
Pioneer will bring standalone digital turntable (not Rane twelve) probably for twice the price (or maybe twelve times lol) but usable for the next decade. It should be like revamped Numark X2 with usb host for pendrive/hd and maybe wifi/bluetooth for direct streaming. These should be around many years than cd.
God I hope so! That sounds like my dream controller…with waveforms…..mmmm
It will make sense and Pioneer has the resources meanwhile Numarkai inMusic seems to be unable to delive something like with Denon know how. Just look at toRaiz vs MpcLive as example…
I bet Denon comes out with a stand alone prime controller, and pioneer releases RXII controller before this TT tho…
Pioneer seems like it’s 1-2 development cycles behind at this point…not sure if it’s Rekordbox taking too much resources but Serato partnership shouldn’t be ignored.
At this point I use exclusively Pioneer Kit that is compatible with both Serato and Rekordbox, so as to have redundancy in applications…I have had Serato not work with my library for 1 year before…
I will seriously look at prime/rekordbox as a primary system if they can do standalone DVS….My clients want and will pay more for TTs.
imho- Serato needs to forge ties with hardware manufactures and lock up a stand alone platform ASAP!
I will love to see it happen but not sure about motorized platter. They has released that unit and it seems motorized is for Rane/Numark for the future…
Numark Dashboard with the guts of mpclive/x running SDJ/Prime could be a punch in the table but Rane 72 doesn’t seems pointing that direction neither. It’s like turntablism market asking for standalone and brands releasing laptop-dependent solutions. Then for EDM you can find lots of proposals… maybe the turntable market is too niche (few clubs, few old users) and the money is only in bedroom to make sense releasing these tools at right price so only Pioneer/Denon could deliver something but difficult to see it motorized (since tt users are serato mac users and NI doesn’t gives a shit about tt)
When Vestax went away, I cried a lot on the inside. But, now more than a few companies are making comparably priced gear with the same feel and build quality.
My setup is modular – once changes happen, I adapt. I would miss my Sixty-Four and have to build a complex audio/MIDI routing contraption to do what it does on its own, but it seems reasonable to expect a Seventy-Four sometime soon. So… things like these don’t matter much to me.
My plan as it has always been.. Is adapt.. That is one of the cornerstones of our craft.. Traditional artists don’t play to the crowd like we do.. They come for the musician and probably like a majority of the artists songs. For us.. one wrong song could lose us a few dancing bodies.. or the entire floor.
It’s interesting that this topic came up. Very synchronistic.
Yesterday I was given a pacemaker portable DJ mixer. These things are essentially.. Done. It’s doubtful there will ever be another run of them.. The company still seems to exist but they have wisely decided to go where the money is. The ios market.
and.. Nearly 9 years after this product comes out.. I am given a mint device. The previous owner couldn’t get it to function so they told me if I could get it to work it was mine..
A windfall.. I needed a music player.. Me.. the obsessive consummate DJ.. and I don’t have a music player.. but because I have always strived to adapt to any situation.. When I finally got another music player.. It was the one I had been wanting for years.. The one I wouldn’t have appreciated quite as much if I had gotten when they came out..
We adapt.. and now.. because I have this wonderful goddess send.. I will always be able to adapt to those situations where a DJ is needed on short notice..
Honestly.. I can’t understand why these devices didn’t take off when they came out.. As DJs we aren’t ALWAYS playing for other people.. there are all kinds of times when we have down time and can’t dig out our laptops or tablets.. With this.. I can work on sets wherever I am.. I can RECORD them wherever I am.. and when I get back home I can even tidy up a couple of mistakes and then publish the mix.. I can bring my splitter and DJ on road trips..
What will I do if Native Instruments is no more? I will adapt.. I will look for something that closely models the Z2 and I will move on.. It will be hard.. But I know I can fix it in the mix.
Technics 1200 1210 won’t die in my lifetime. if it does there is still a big second hand market for it and many user replacable parts..
buy a controller in 10 years nobody uses it anymore cause they come and go… buy the real deal and it will last a lifetime
It’s a tough call, but if my current setup died out on me…. I’d probably wind up taking the proverbial “gamble” on one of the nicer all in one setups, or more likely go with that oh so sexy new and shiny Rane setup, even if it is a whopping $4,800 CAD.
If the company who’s gear I have went out of commission…. Good question. The mixer I could easily replace with one of many others that are on the market, but my turntables… I dunno, I could probably go with digital in the long run simply because I’ve moved that direction anyways.
Since I don’t use two thirds of the features of most programs out there, adapting would have that couple dozen hour annoyance phase, but beyond that… Not much else.
I’ve been pretty frozen on the same equipment for the best part of 10 years now, I have considered updating/changing many times but haven’t found a solid enough ‘dollars vs sense’ reason to do it besides just wanting something new.
I would always have been a Rane person and while I do like the look of the 72. I wouldn’t buy one until they’ve been around for a while and we have a sense of reliability and support levels from inmusic.
Discounting Rane for the time being, I don’t know who else I’d go to for a mixer. The S9 looks nice but I’ve just never liked the feel of Pioneer mixers.
I just had a look through my local store website to see what I’d end up walking out with if I needed to buy a mixer today, looks like I’d begrudgingly end up with an S9.
Did Ecler ever really come back properly?
Turntables I’d be much less fussed about, I feel like a lot of the big differences have become less relevant now with DVS/Rel Mode. Especially when so many are just variations on the Hanpin. I’d most likely look at the reloop RP8000 or the Denon VL12.
Software I likely would struggle with, I’ve always been on Serato since I went digital and have stayed up to date with each release, I have played on Rekordbox (and hated it) and the few times I’ve messed around with Traktor I didn’t like the workflow.
I’m sure I’d adapt if necessary but if Serato went out of business tomorrow you’d likely find me using SDJ until either my SL3 dies or the software won’t work on a new OS.
What really bothers me is reading opinions here and realizing that people will replace their all-in-one solution with another all-in-one, even when the reason for the change is failure of only one component (software support for example). Did we stop learning from our mistakes or have we just became too lazy to have modular setups?
long time ago i build up my personal workflow and this works quite good for me by traveling and playing in different clubs and its kind of unique. Many ppl like my style and i am teaching this method to my students if they want. Biggest Problem serato Dj is not supporting my workflow – i have to use SSL and this App is fixed to older OS/Win Versions… this is a mess! ppl say: “Never change a running system” but industry denies it today with there total dumb updatewarz – well they need to make money – i guess biggest mistake Technics made is to build the solid as a rock MK … this World of capitalism suxx often.
I gave this a lot of thought, and strangely enough the one piece of hardware or software that would be the hardest to replace is iTunes.
My setup is modular, so finding a replacement mixer, controller, audio interface or turntable would be easy. I could probably learn to live with Serato or VirtualDJ, if Traktor ceased to exist. However, I do all my library and playlist management in iTunes, not to mention most of my music listening, so finding a replacement would be quite hard.
I miss vestax :(