How I learned to let go of the old ways of DJing

How I learned to let go of the old ways of DJing

How I learned to let go of the old ways of DJing

History is a security blanket

When we look back on our past – no matter the context – we often experience a feeling of safety. It’s normal to base your current decisions on your past experience. Deep within our brains is a mechanism for recognizing cause and effect, and our past experience serves us well most of the time. But when taken too far, or out of proper context, it can become a cage from which new ideas can’t escape. I think this is where the DJ industry is right now.

We all know the well-established DJ workflow. If I showed any of you the following abstract picture, you would immediately understand what it is…

How I learned to let go of the old ways of DJing

Nearly every DJ software package has copied it to some extent at one time or another. On the surface of it that may seem logical, but did you ever stop and think about why?

What’s the Big Deal?

Let’s look at the reason that workflow is so deeply established in our minds. The basic idea behind modern DJing was to have multiple playback sources and an audio mixer to transition between them – that way the DJ could prepare the next record while one was playing. Only one song was played at a time, so that defined the minimum number of sources needed as two. This also helped establish the specifications for the audio mixer (it had to support at least 2 audio sources and be able to transition smoothly between them). The idea of moving a platter to manipulate playback comes from the fact that for a long time, record players were the primary devices for playing back recorded music. To reproduce any audio, the record had to be spinning (to drag the needle through the groove and create sound).

This workflow has been around even as far back as the early 1900s. In 1910, the Gaumont Chronophone was developed so that music could be played during silent films.

How I learned to let go of the old ways of DJing
Gaumont Chronophone – on display at the Museé de la Musique in Paris

So the established DJ workflow exists because of the limitations of hardware at the time. We’re used to 2 decks and a mixer because that was the simplest way to achieve continuous playback, and we’re used to using a platter to control that music because a spinning platter was required in order to play a record. Neither idea was chosen because it was the best way to manipulate music. They were both a means to an end at a time when the most important thing was what was playing – not how.

If it’s so antiquated, why has it lasted so long?

It’s lasted so long because DJing didn’t change much between 1910 and 1980. For a good 70 years, whether you were playing music for people in a nightclub or in a radio station, you were mostly playing songs end to end and doing a simple fade between them. The first pitch variable turntables you would recognize as “DJ quality” came out in the mid-60s, but they were used mainly by radio stations and transcription services. Even very basic techniques (like slip cueing) weren’t commonly used by DJs until the end of the Disco era, inspired by the first generation of “superstar DJs” like Francis Grasso, Dave Mancuso*, and Rick Squillante.

*Late in his career Mancuso stopped using most DJ techniques and just played records end to end.

Even when you progress through the early 80’s and the birth of many new DJ techniques, they were generally simple, and rarely detracted from the playback of the song. They were used most often to enhance or lengthen the playing record. The star of the show was still the song that was playing, and a DJs record collection did a lot more to establish them in their local scene than their technical prowess.

Flash forward to today, and even now how many of you have a performance that is closer to Jazzy Jeff or Ritchie Hawtin than the simple end to end DJing that was the norm in 1985?

So it’s Timeless. What’s the Problem?

The problem now is that in this internet age, we all have access to the same songs. There isn’t any such thing as a “promo only” release anymore. If you’re a successful DJ in your area, there isn’t much to stop an up and coming DJ from listening to you for a week and ripping your set lists, then underbidding you and grabbing your gig.

If you want to sound different now, it takes interacting with the music in a fundamentally different way than we did before. If we as DJs need to be able to differentiate ourselves and interact with our music in a new way, is the old 2 decks and a mixer workflow the best way to accomplish that?

Producer as DJ?

One of the most obvious ways to differentiate your music from someone else’s is by adding some original production. This allows you to please your crowd while also creating something no one else has. One way to do this is to pre-produce your music via normal means (like a DAW) and just play the result at your gig. That gets the job done, but it’s not a lot of fun, and it lends credibility to the notion that DJs just push buttons. I don’t personally agree with that idea, because production is its own skill. But I think the ideal situation is one where the DJ can create remixes live.

We’ve had some tools to accomplish this kind of performance for a long time. Nearly every DJ program available offers these elements – from simple looping and sample playing to complicated, beat-synchronized macros. But it has only been in the last couple years that these features have been given their own workflow instead of being shoe-horned into an old DJ idiom, and what used to only require 2 sources is now commonly spread out to 4 or more. Software has been improved to allow what was once mundane functionality (like cue points or loops) to be used in a musical way, and everything from the various deck sources and effects to the triggering of cue points and the length of loops can be synced to perfection. The job of the DJ – like any other artist – is highly variable, but more and more the modern DJ is turning to production to stand out from the crowd.

The genie isn’t going back into the bottle anytime soon. There has been a fundamental shift in the DJ market, and everyone’s expectations have changed. It used to be that this kind of production (indeed using software to DJ at all) was looked down upon. Companies like Pioneer and Serato once championed the notion that using a traditional DJ workflow was keeping it real – and some users flocked to those platforms because of that. Now there is very little difference between using a Pioneer DJ setup you’d find in most clubs and using DJ software. Using Serato DJ now is a lot like using Traktor. DJing has fully embraced the computer age.

Everything we work with is digital, and all of our music plays from software.

If it’s all digital, is the platter still important?

Personally I think not. The platter is now more often than not a waste of space. In the digital world, it’s not even the best control to handle traditional platter functionality. If I’m using a platter to set up a cue, that’s easy – but what if I want to mark a position 2 minutes into the song? I could use a platter and spin like crazy – or I could use a smaller and much more efficient touch strip and get there in a  couple seconds. And while the deck is playing I could use that same touch strip to nudge the pitch for manual mixing. Incorporate a couple gestures and you have something really flexible in a fraction of the space a jog wheel takes up. A touch  strip is actually a better turntable analog than a platter, because it also allows needle drop functionality as well as direct waveform manipulation.

And that’s just one possible control choice.

Here’s the real problem with this platter debate – NO ONE is sitting down and figuring out a better way forward. The increasingly shrinking roster of companies that make DJ gear are playing it safe – which is why everyone right now is pretty much making the same handful of controllers. Any company that dares to break convention faces the struggle of getting that product into retailers (who don’t want to buy it because it doesn’t look like everything else). If that product gets loaded into stores and doesn’t immediately become a sales hit, it’s usually pulled before it ever has a chance (making the next unique product – no matter how good – impossible to pitch).

And of course if it’s a sales success, the entire industry will turn around and copy your work. If the Novation Twitch had been a huge hit, by now everyone would have had their own take on the concept and Native Instrument’s S8 wouldn’t be so controversial.

How I learned to let go of the old ways of DJing
While synthesising audio into liquid form was nothing short of a miracle, the mad scientists spectacularly failed in grasping the concept of DJ mixer design.

Should I Worry?

Are all future controllers going to start pulling off the bits that I need to work? Are they all going to be sync enabled button grids with no pitch fader or platter?

Of course not. When Adobe came out with Photoshop stores didn’t stop selling paint and brushes. When MIDI was developed they didn’t stop selling pianos. If there is a demand for a product, someone will always sell it.

But you have to allow for people who want to approach the art of DJing from a different angle to pursue that as well. Now more than any other time in history, the whole idea of what a DJ does is changing. You have to know that some people are going to go in that new direction, and there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s no different than GWT figuring out scratching, Kool Herc juggling breaks, or DJ Pierre discovering that you could make a Roland TB-303 sound really cool if you tweaked it a bit. These are the people that push our boundaries and figure out new ways of doing things.

We as a community need to encourage that. At the very least we need to allow the space for it. Because that’s where the really good stuff comes from.

  1. I cannot agree with this article enough! Bravo to you! I bought a Novation Twitch on Pre-Release because this is exactly how I felt. I do believe there are a couple of DJ programs that will let you handle music in the (online) Non-Linear Editing fashion which is pretty much the standard for video editing, like the One DJ, and Deckadance 2. You’re right about the fear of change, people tend to fear rejection if they don’t use what others expect of them… until the others are shown why they are wrong to scorn. Innovators have the freedom to think differently at the cost of rejection until they are successful.

    It’s refreshing to hear another person who sees the world of DJing as I see it.

      1. Well, you *could* consider the Native Instruments Kontrol S8 an update, but it’s not the same manufacturer.

        I think it would be neat (about a deck that uses two iPhones) is if it could ‘hot-swap’ either phone deck. All the DJ would have to do is pull out one of the phones to change over (and then the other to complete the hand-off). I’m not sure (at the moment) how to get the iPhones to talk to each-other while plugged into the board, but at this point, it seems very sexy, very doable, and very versatile.

        1. It’s definitely an idea. I don’t use iPhones so it doesn’t really appeal to me, but being able to hot swap anything would be awesome. At that point you might as well let two computers get hooked up to it too, and then have one controller for everyone.

          And the S8 is kind of an update to the idea (and I’m SUPER excited for it), but I think novation could have carried it much better.

  2. I believe the old format will never die because of one reason, Stage Presence.

    If you hire a drummer for a gig and they turn up with an Octapad instead of a Drumkit, it may do the same thing but it doesn’t have the same stage presence. Therefore it won’t create the same energy and showmanship expected from the crowd, agent, bookers and fellow band members.

    The same can be said for a Pianist who instead of bringing their Nord Stage, brings an ipad with a piano app.

    A DJ is no different. The sheer size of a traditional setup adds to the energy on stage.

    If you are hidden in a booth where people can’t see you then jumping around may suffice to create the energy and presence. But at most gigs you are visible or are onstage so a small controller just won’t cut it because image is a large part of entertainment.

    1. Outside of turntablism, generally DJing is not actually a performance art. For example, a piano player pressing keys on an iPad will never, ever have the same result as a pianist sitting down at a piano. It just can’t happen.

      But a DJ pressing play on a CD deck (or even a record player which is probably using timecode vinyl) will have the same result as a DJ pressing play on an iPad, or a controller, or anything that gets music from one place to another.

      I dunno. I go to clubs to dance, not to watch some guy move around on stage. And when I spin I hope to make people dance, I don’t really give a shit if they want to watch me.

      Totally not the same as when I go to a live show and want a drummer. Personally, I think a drummer adds a helluva lot more to a live show than some turntables and a mixer adds to a DJ set.

      1. if you go to a club just to dance then actually no dj is needed for your needs, then automatic pre-recorded mix of commercial songs can be started by the clubowner till 5am. saves him money and youre a happy customer

        1. this is going to become a discussion about the role of a club DJ and a turntablist. Club DJ’s are there to make people dance and buy alcohol, they have to read the room accordingly. I go to clubs to hear the music and meet friends not to watch some guy in a booth. When I play I sometimes I even sit down … and then no-one sees me, I still believe that the music is more important than the DJ, but I am oldschool.

          1. a club doesnt really need a “DJ” anymore, im fine with a automatic pre-recorded playlist then the clubowner saves a lot of money, the DJ who doesnt do shit can kiss my ass and stay home as far as im concerned, only the ones who get busy show some proper skill deserve respect, the rest may as well retire, and find a real job.

          1. i certainly know whats its like to dj at nightclub, did it over 100 times, and festivals and did radio radio shows and released records , so been there done that oh and i also did live battles on stage.

            just saying that most bars or clubs today dont need any dj anymore, unless they are hired to rock a set of turntables and do tricks, else im fine with a playlist till 5am

            actually i have much more respect for a person who does a cleaning job at an airport then the average DJ today, if a DJ doesnt sweat and gets busy on the 1s and 2s then he canm kiss my ass, cause he dont deserve a penny then

            1. I’ve been DJing since the late 80s, and I’ve NEVER been to any kind of club where playing a static set of music would be appropriate. I’ve DJed everything from open format to breaks and 2step, at every kind of club and one-off you can imagine.

              I think either your view is VERY narrow, you spend a lot of time in shitty bars you refer to as clubs, or you have no idea what you’re talking about – because a playlist can’t rotate a dancefloor. A playlist can’t respond to patron input. A playlist can’t wind a room down so it’s easier to get rid of everyone at closing time.

        2. hah yeah, cause I love commercial songs, right?

          You’re making a clear assumption about me as a person and my tastes. The only person who could make the perfect iTunes playlist for me is me. And even then it won’t be mixed or blended in any way that satisfies me because iTunes can’t do that.

          Look, there are whole lot of things a DJ needs to do. Even if you remove everything else, we need to mix, blend, and control energy in a way a computer couldn’t. I don’t want a jukebox, I want someone mixing songs and keeping the energy moving in a fashion that keeps the floor moving, fast and slow.

          But I don’t need some guy behind two turntables dancing around like a fool, or jesus posing, or putting on a show while mixing other people’s music. I don’t care what the DJ does in the booth, as long as the music is good and the flow works. Why is that the same as a jukebox?

          1. to truth is music doesnt have to be mixed at an average bar, just song after song is what ppl want, back i n the days i wanted to hear the stuff i was familiar with in the cluib without it being interupted only after 1 minute.

            not sure who hires you but anybody can do what you do, a controllerist is just a controllerist, the ppl who i respect as a DJ myself are the ones who stick to the culture of DJing, a rock drummer sticks with his drums therefore a DJ needs to stick with his decks, else the scene will get wack and unispiring, i was a rick fan as a kid, if these rockers suddenly started to use ipads on stage instead of guitars then i ould be disappointed if i was a kid now so no disrtespect to you as a person but i dont even bother watching any controllerist in a club, but if the DJ starts getting busy on 2 decks then i get worth my money paid.

            1. Huh? I guess you don’t respect Z-Trip anymore?http://instagram.com/p/t7CJH8O2Vz/ I
              I first heard of Z-Trip when I attended a Red Bull event. DJ Qbert and DJ Jazzy Jeff were in attendance as well. The DJ that inspired me that night was Z-Trip. Fast forward to two days ago and the picture he posted. I highly doubt his sets will get “wack” and “uninspiring” if he selects this rig going forward. Stop acting like the crowd did when Bob Dylan plugged in at Newport 1965. Lastly, watch this http://youtu.be/Zj7KvJesN00 You might learn something.

              1. DJ Shortkut, D-Styles have used controllers, doesn’t mean they are “controllerists”

                In all fairness Z-Trip was never the best “turntablist”, he was or is playing all sorts of music for better club or festival appeal from rock, to pop, to hiphop, i dont really care what he uses as i wouldnt go to his gigs in the first place.

                However if a guy like DJ Revolution came to my place i would certainly expect him to rock on 2 turntables and not besome bandwagon sheeple using a bunch of lighted buttons without turntables.

                1. Did I say Z-Trip is a “controllerist”? No, I know he’s a “turntablist”.

                  Regardless of your close-minded opinions, I have mad respect for Z-Trip.

                  Honestly, I could care less what the DJ is rocking on. If it sounds good to me that is the ONLY thing that matters.

                  As I previously mentioned, you should watch this http://youtu.be/Zj7KvJesN00 because you might learn a few things.

            2. See, and that’s fine with me. I’m not DJing in a club to get your respect, or to be watched. I’m DJing so people dance. The reality is that anyone can do what any of us do, if they just put the work in. I’m not saying I’m the best DJ ever, but I don’t suck.

              I totally understand your rock show comment. I love my rock with drums, 100%. But your comparison is too extreme. A DJ using controllers instead of turntables is not the same as a drummer not using drums. It’s more analogous to them using an electronic drum kit with a click track of some sort. And that can still be really badass.

      2. I totally agree. If you are a DJ that is just a glorified jukebox. But the venue is paying for you to be the entertainment, so it is your job to entertain. If they didn’t want a performer they would just put on a iTunes playlist.

        If you are a paid performer it is you job to put on a performance. Part of the show like any show is the props on stage. In the case of a musician it is the instrument which is the prop.

        It doesn’t matter if it is turntables or CDJ’s the look is an important part of the show. Making people dance is another important part. But you can’t just disregard the visual part of the performance, you don’t live in a bubble. Whether you care or not people are going to be watching you.

        So having ‘impressive’ gear is part of people’s perception of how good you are as an artist. Such as a guitarist coming on stage with a kick ass rig, or a drummer with a pimping kit. It’s just the way it is. Music is performance art and DJing is an art form and should always be respected as such.

        1. I completely disagree, 100% disagree. I am not hired as a performer, to be on stage rocking out. I’m hired to play music that makes people dance. An iTunes playlist can’t do that, since it can’t, y’know, see people and react to their responses.

          Once again, excluding turntablism and advanced performance techniques here, right? Like, we aren’t talking about what Moldover and Tom Cosm do, we’re talking about DJing. We are playing other people’s music in an organized fashion and trying to get people to dance.

          I don’t care what the DJ is using, I care about the end result. If a DJ shows up with Traktor DJ on an iPad and spins an amazing set and keeps everyone dancing are they less of a DJ than someone who shows up with turntables and a mixer and spins the exact same set?

          It is my job to entertain by playing good music people want to dance to. It is not my job to entertain by dancing around behind a huge rig of electronics that are probably not getting used. Once again, excluding turntablists and controllerists like Moldover and Tom Cosm.

          1. It’s all good, you have a right to your own opinion. But we are getting a little bit of topic. My comment was about the gear you use adding to the crowds perception of you as a performer.

            For some gigs I have to use a controller cos there is no room for my turntables where I have to set up. But I always get a thousand more compliments when I spin on turntables because of other peoples perception of me being a better or ‘real’ DJ.

            Rocking out with an ipad app and a Z1 is fine back at your hotel room after a show, but not on a main stage cos that’s just lame.

            There a plenty of lame musicians out there that just go through the motions on stage and they make the gig boring and uninspiring. Then there are musicians that put their heart and soul into every performance, no matter what venue they are playing. It’s the latter that gets rebooked for gigs again and again.

            A DJ is a one-man-band and has the same standards to uphold to as any musician.

            There are plenty of gigs where people aren’t there to just dance. Such as, art galleries, fashion shows, private/corporate events, small bars, restaurants etc.

            You are hired for these events for an image and for entertainment. And the image people are expecting is 2 turntables and a mixer so you better project the image they expect. By the way the private/corporate event gigs pay 10x the money that general club gigs pay so it would be stupid to disregard them.

            1. As someone who makes their bread and butter on weddings and corporate events, I’m inclined to agree with you on the issue of image. In a club setting, Jared, absolutely the gear doesn’t matter as more often than not, the DJ is in a booth that’s mostly hidden from view. But working a wedding or event that isn’t a club but is expected to have a club environment, image is most definitely a contributing factor to how you’re perceived as a DJ, especially since both you and your gear are right there, 20ft away from your crowd, front and center. Showing up with a just laptop is going to incite sideways looks and at worst, cause you to lose out on future clients because “he’s just using a laptop, we can do that ourselves and save $1500”.
              I have a DDJ-SX that’s amazing to use but I still prefer to use 1200’s when I do big events because it gives the impression that I’m a “real DJ”. I know that’s bunk, you know that’s bunk, but the general populace doesn’t, especially those that don’t frequent clubs often. These are people who equate “DJ” with “two turntables and a mixer (and laptop)”. For that reason alone, I don’t think platters will ever go out of vogue. Club punters might not care about kit but Jack and Jane Somebody still do and if you want them to give you their money, you have to look the part in addition to playing the part

              1. And that’s totally fair. But nobody is saying not to use turntables. They have value.

                There’s a great deal of perception involved, sure. But I think the problem is that you and I know it’s bunk, but a LOT of other DJs don’t seem to understand it. Hence we are still having this argument. If we can acknowledge that DJs can be great with or without turntables, then fine, this isn’t a discussion anymore. But we still have to define DJing into camps, and that frustrates me.

                1. We will always be having this argument. To not be, is like asking for world peace. Language itself is used to categorize things. It’s the reason why we have genres instead of just music. The skill set of controllerism and turntablism are completely different so they are put into different categories. It like saying there shouldn’t be a difference between a guitarist and a pianist because they are both just musicians.

                  All entertainment is an illusion. Movies aren’t real, an artists stage persona is not their real self. Image is all the consuming public knows, it’s all they will judge you by. It’s shallow and superficial but reality.

                  1. That… wasn’t really my point. I mean, yeah, words are meaningless, semiotics, nothing is real, perception is reality, etc. etc.

                    Differentiating things is fine. We need categories for our own sanity. My problem comes up when one is categorized as “better” when, in the end, they are completely different things, OR they are categorized as different,when they are really the same thing.

                    1. Yeah I went a bit esoteric there. ;)

                      But the thing is they are different. If there are no disc’s involved (vinyl/CD/DVS) then how can you say your a disc jockey. You are a controllerist or a live remixer or wherever term will end up being but your not a DJ in the true sense of the word.

                    2. But is the defining characteristic of being a DJ using round things that have music on them? How is DVS any different than using buttons? I’m still playing music on a hard drive.

                      To me, being a DJ is defined by playing music to make people A) dance; B) enjoy an atmosphere; or C) over the radio. It doesn’t matter what format the music is coming from, it matters that there is music.

                    3. DVS is different because it is still a disc which contains organized noise. Jog wheels are disc shaped so I guess you could loosely associate them as disc’s too. But the new direction that one area of DJing is going (F1, S8 etc.) Is something new. The language used to describe what it is hasn’t been formalized yet because it is still in its infancy.

                      The first phones were called ‘speaking telegraphs’ because that’s how people where used to talking about communication, telegraphs. This new form of music performance in which people are mashing up and remixing live is a new format like the telephone. It is still called DJing because that is the language we are used to talking in. But since there are no disc’s involved it is not actually disc jockeying.

                      This is not a positive or a negative it’s just something new and the language surrounding it hasn’t been formalized yet.

                    4. CunTROLLerism aint DJing or Turntablism. But everyone is entitled to have an opinion. Be it blog-writing people or real artists who actually contribute something to the scene. And of course the blog-writing people are writing about any new fart/equipment etc. cause that’s their reason, why they do it (or even live from it). But this doesn’t make it a new law…

                    5. Fear to freedom is the seed to frustration and sadness which is the feed to troll being.

                      Controllerism,
                      Turntablism,
                      Bonestickism over skulls in the beggining of time.
                      It is all about the music.

                    6. I don’t know. This whole conversation keeps informing me it’s about how cool you look while doing it.

                    7. I agree completely! Just like it’s my opinion that Fab 5 Freddy has inadvertently ruined more music than auto-tune and brickwall compression combined. Everyone is entitled to have an opinion.

                    8. So… if you are using DVS to play songs and mix them… and I am using a controller to play songs and mix them we are doing two different things? Or what I’m doing is not DJing, it’s something different?

                      Why isn’t “controllerist” good enough? Turntablists scratch and use vinyl to create new sounds and songs. Controllerists use stems and bits of songs to create a new experience (a la mashup and live remix). And DJs play other people’s music with little flourishes from effects, scratching, and mixing.

                      but at a certain point, isn’t it all just semantics?

                    9. Yes exactly, this is semantics words have a particular meaning you can’t just disregard them when it suits you.

                      Semantics (from Ancient Greek: σημαντικός sēmantikós, “significant”) is the study of meaning.

                      If you drive a car that is shaped kind of like an aeroplane, you are still not a pilot.

                      Just because you are playing music doesn’t mean you are a Disc Jockey.

                      Originally, “disc” (uncommonly spelled “disque” or commonly “disk” in American English) refers to phonograph records.

                      But you can call yourself whatever you want. You can use language how ever you want. I am just pointing out why as DJ’s, we keep differentiating between the two art forms. Because they are just that, 2 different art forms.

                      If you gave a traditional DJ a controller with no jog wheels and just a bunch of buttons, they wouldn’t know where to start.

                      If you have a controllerist a set of turntables, they wouldn’t even know how to set the counter balance on the needles.

                      Because they take two completely different set of skills. You keep saying the two are the same when they clearly are not.

                    10. I don’t believe that’s true at all. I’ll use myself as an example.

                      I have a pair of turntables and a mixer. I know how to counterbalance a needle.

                      I use controllers regularly with no jog wheels.

                      They require different skills, but are not completely different. In the end I’m still playing other people’s music, and once again excluding the VERY specific skill of turntablism, and are pretty much identical. On one side I need to beatmatch manually and on the other I have more access to features like loops and beatjumping.

                      I just don’t see how having two rotating platters makes DJing drastically different than not, if you’re just playing other people’s music.

                    11. You are correct. But we are an exception. Judging but the fact you mix gabber, I’m guessing you have been DJing for 15+ years. The same as me. So we have developed all the skill sets which have evolved in the industry.

                      I am talking about people that have never picked up a record. Who didn’t know the world before computers or the Internet.

                      They wouldn’t even know what antiskate is. A turntable is like an instrument that you have to tune before you play it. You can’t expect someone who has played keys there whole life to be able to tune a piano. It requires a different set of skills. But a pianist can play a keyboard with no problems.

                      It’s the same with DJing, you come from an analog background and have learnt the new technology. Anybody who has started with the new tech would have a hard time not having screens to look at. Your analogy is doesn’t represent the majority of young die hard controllerists.

                    12. I’ve been DJing for around 10 years (spin industrial/electro-punk kinda stuff) and made the choice to at least start on DVS since finding vinyl in the mid 2000’s kind of sucked for my tastes (still does and always will)

                      That’s fair. I see your point. I mean, I think you aren’t giving enough credit to younger DJs who, by and large, hold turntables in very high esteem as a DJ medium and would use them if they could afford them. The majority never will in a club, though, for a number of reasons.

                      But where your analogy gets interesting to me is the piano/keyboard thing. A keyboard player and a piano player at the same level will probably sound just as good on both a keyboard and a piano. I mean, it’s the same core skill. The only thing that sets them apart is tuning their own instrument which, to be fair, is really fucking hard on a piano, but it easily learned if you understand the concept.

                      Now it sounds like understanding how a turntable works defines one as a DJ. What about all those guys who only use CDJs? They very well could never have used a turntable, and have no idea what anti-skate is.

                    13. I’m not talking about what defines a DJ. I am just highlighting the differences between a controllerist and a turntablist. They both take different skills, not better or worse just different. They are not the same thing. And this is based not just on the gear they use but on the differences in the skills needed.

                      There is not too much of a difference between Trap and Dubstep, but there is enough to give them different labels. There not much difference between a Rockers or a Steppers beat, but we give them different labels. So why not give turntablists and controllerists a different label?

                    14. Ooookay I think this thread has officially gotten confused for both of us :p

                      I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with calling turntablists and controllerists different things. I think we spent this entire conversation dancing around that, and it seems we have come together to agree :)

                      My point is that DJs are DJs, whether they are using controllers or turntables or CDs. Controllerists and turntablists are separate beasts, and definitely deserve different titles.

            2. I never disregarded general non-club gigs. When I worked in corporate I went to a bunch of those parties, and nobody ever cared what the DJ was using except to ask me what I thought about it. And the DJs who got the most compliments were, well, good, and it never mattered the gear they were using.

              Those gigs where people aren’t there to dance, they aren’t there to watch a DJ. They are there to look at art, drink, dance with their friends/coworkers/etc. The DJ is supposed to provide the impetus to enjoy that stuff, not be a live performer.

              Those musicians also get booked because, generally, they are better performers and more people want to watch them. I don’t see what a DJ does and what a musician/band does as analogous. Other than music being involved, we are all doing drastically different things.

              I’m not saying gear doesn’t matter. It does, of course it does. My only point is that there is no “right” gear.

    1. Oh no you don’t. We make custom tools with specific purposes and those allow us to do specific tasks better than a generalized tool; Each type of paintbrush has a specific purpose. A drill with a socket wrench adapter, drives a nut better than a box wrench. A scalpel cuts into skin better than a pocket knife (less tearing)… the list goes on and on. We make better tools for each task as we face the shortcomings of the existing tools, and imagine how we could do that task better.

      Having more choices means we need to be more thoughtful about the tools we use. Also, just having those tools doesn’t make you good, you have to practice with them to be good at using them as well.

      The reason people go to art/music school is to hone their craft. To be better at what they would otherwise not know they would be able to do.

      Tools help the craftsperson do the job, they don’t do it for them. It is a mistake to presume otherwise.

  3. The trigger finger pro or F1 (booth with turntable only for scratch heroes) are the new (or almost one of the best) workflow/paradigm. The most fun for button pushers with some “old” flavour (mpc anyone?)
    The tfp has internal secuencer with record and no sound (brilliant!) and I’m wanting one as I wanted one twitch in his moment.
    An mk2 version class compliant and djplayer with some “tools” like slicing or midi cue secuencing (flip?) could be so fun too.

    Happy to see new times coming… Or not so old times hehe.

    Pd: I still have two stribes waiting to upgrade a arduino hacked cdx…

  4. Until someone figures out how to design a touch strip that allows you to do the same scratch techniques as a turntable then I don’t see platters going away any time soon. Also, in the article you said about finding a cue point in a song “I could use a platter and spin like crazy – or I could use a smaller and much more efficient touch strip and get there in a couple seconds”. That is not necessarily the case. For example, a touch strip will get you close but it’s not very exact. Take for example the touch strip on the NS7 II, when you move your finger to find your cue point you can only get within the general region of the desired spot but it’s really hard to get to the exact spot, and as soon as you lift your finger the cue marker will often jump slightly because it’s following the last point of contact between your fat finger and the touch strip, and if said last point of contact was slightly off-center then the cue marker will jump. BUT, if you hold down the shift button and spin the platter you can get to the general part of the track very quickly, and then you can release the shift button to get more precise control to find your cue point.

    And, besides all of that, there is really something to be said for the tactile feel of platters, and as antiquated as some people are beginning to think platters are, you just don’t get the same ‘feel’ from a touch strip. And what about spinbacks? Pretty much all scratch and beat juggling techniques? And don’t underestimate the visual aspect of turntables or platters. Are we really THAT hard up for free space on controllers that we need to think about removing platters altogether? No matter how good a DJ is, if I see a DJ hunched over a tiny little controller it just looks lame to me. Does DJing really need to be reduced down to using the smallest controller possible? You might say why have pitch faders when you can use SYNC? Why have platters when you can use a touch strip? Why have gain controls or channel faders when you can use auto gain? Why have a crossfader when you can use auto fade? I’ll tell you why… because then you’re no longer a DJ, you’re Spotify! Just because technology allows us to do away with conventional ways of playing music does not necessarily mean it’s better! There’s a reason Samurai swords are still made by hand… just sayin’

    1. DJIng isn’t only about scratching. The vast majority of DJs don’t scratch. It’s a specialist thing. Plus if you look back at the history/development of controllers, they didn’t always have platters – that’s a fairly recent introduction.

      The first controllers were 19″ rack mount designs which copied the layout of the rack mount twin CD DJ players of the period. They had small jog wheels.
      http://www.deejaysystem.com/support/manual/gfx/DMC1_400.jpg
      For most DJs that was not an issue. It was the turntablists who kicked up a fuss because they wanted part of the DJ software action but still used traditional decks.

      Step forward the first TCV/DVS systems, to enable those DJs to control the new (software) with the old (turntables).

      Very gradually after that, platters on controllers became a thing.

      1. Surely I can’t be the only person who is pro-platter?? I’m not against controllers without platters, but I am against the idea that somehow platters are obsolete and this “adapt or die” mentality. I’m not drinking that Kool-aid man. And I HAVE adapted. I fully embrace new technology. I use controllers and I’m always ragging on “vinylsaur” DJs who think that turntables are the only way of “keeping it real.” But what’s wrong with wanting the best of both worlds?… the technology of modern controllers and the old-school feel of a platter. And I’m sorry, but you can’t tell me that scratch DJs are “niche” – there are a million hip hop DJs out there. I’m all for platter-free controllers if that’s what you’re most comfortable with, use what works for you, but don’t tell me that platters on controllers should be done away with because it’s not YOUR bag or platters aren’t necessary. The mentality should be “we need more controllers without platters” not “we need to banish platters altogether.” Also, the “2 turntable and a mixer” setup is an integral part of hip hop culture and history so to just dismiss turntables and platters as being “old-timey” and not recognizing that it’s an important part of the hip hop DJ scene is an outrage. I’m all for platter-less controllers but please don’t tell me that platters aren’t necessary to some DJs, because they are. I’m not saying the people who’ve posted on this topic are saying that, but at the same time let’s not perpetuate the idea that platters are the old way of doing things – they’re just a different way. And for me using a platter is fun and keeps me engaged – using just buttons and touch strips – not so much. On a side note, I used to work for a company that makes a touch screen DJ system and I was the only “hip hop guy” who worked there and everyone else who worked there was always saying “hip hop is dead” or “scratching is dead”. I was like “what EDM brainwashed world are you living in??!” lol.

        1. I’m not anti-platter. I learned to DJ on vinyl, and play out on Denon HS5500s – without scratching.

          I’m just saying that scratching isn’t all there is. For every one scratch DJ there are probably 10x or even 100x more that play other styles and don’t scratch. For those DJs platters just take up space.

          Take the Numark NV I was demonstrating at BPM. Of all the DJs that approached me over the three days, only a handful mentioned the small platters as a potential issue. The majority weren’t bothered, they loved the NV.

    2. Hey Dizzy! On touchstrip accuracy and performance, you’re talking more about how the strip is implemented and not so much what it’s capable of. It’s pretty easy to (for instance) set it up so touching with one finger gives you an “absolute” map of the song across the length of the touch strip (similar to how strip search is implemented), but using 2 fingers to touch the strip gives you relative fine control. It’s also pretty easy to do something like a spinback with a touch strip. But also, let’s not dwell on touch strips. I’m not saying they’re the only answer – I only said they’re one alternative. We need more alternatives IMO.
      As for the swords comment, I agree. But they also make guns now. And I know personally which I would rather carry into a fight (insert ending of Last Samurai here).

  5. my 2 cents
    1) 1 out of 1000 “dj” is good enough to create his own decent song by layering samples or loops. Don’t get me wrong I too find it funny to play with sounds on ableton live but i don’t dare to call it a song and play it in public, and neither should 999/1000 of you.
    2) There’s a lot more than selecting a playlist: you must adapt to the crowd, the hour, the other dj that are playing before and after you, the location, the playlist you played the last week… and this kind of adapting can not be easily copied, it requires experience.
    3) All those loop-slicing-fancy effects are boring after 1 minute and the only person having fun is the dj himself, unless you are REALLY good with them and you play EDM

  6. well said :)
    joy-stick as jog = awesome (swing by, I’ll show you)
    my advise for embracing the new is “DJs pick up a microphone”…a gasp goes thru the crowd. OH yea, it works, the crowd knows you’re a real person, and that you want them to have a good time.

  7. From my experience, if I play an identical set using my turntable setup versus my controller, I will get 10x more compliments on my DJing when using vinyl. People (especially non DJs) always think beat matching is some hard learned skill when it really is pretty easy after just a little practice. And, that’s not doing anything crazy, that is just straight A – B mixxing tech / deep house tracks. So, you might as well get rid of the platters on controllers, because people already think they are gimmicks for the most part anyway.

    Also, do you have any examples of this ‘live performance DJing’ from House or Trance DJs where they are significantly altering the underlying tracks? Every time this subject comes up, if anything is linked as an example, it’s dubstep or EDM type music and they are just adding more stutter to an already stuttery type of sound.

    I would be happy to move away from the 2turntables and a mixer paradigm, I’m just not convinced live on stage production is the right direction. I really prefer that Djs focus on finding and mixxing great songs, not live remixxing crappy generic ones to make their ‘unique’ sound.

  8. Anything has changed, what still works in clubs is one song/track after another ,how many of you mess too much with loops or effects at your residency? When you do it, you do it at home and you are a controllerist not a DJ entertaining a crowd that will leave the dancefloor with all that trickery hurting their ears if you do it more that a couple of times here and there, how many clubs use a turntablists for more than an hour if they use any at all? Not to dismiss neither controllerists nor turntablists they can do things that we can’t but is a different thing that doesn’t suit a saturday night set at a club for most people, right? #stopwiththefutureofdjingplease

    1. I was having this discussion the other day with someone. Basically the premise is that bar some notable exceptions, the more popular and successful a DJ becomes, the less they rely on technology, and it becomes about the music. Because ultimately, the crowd wants to hear music that makes them dance, unhindered by excessive use of effects and tricks.

      1. just look at “that” article from “that other” site the top 100 are called the “CDJ Mafia” using standart 2-decks-and-a-mixer set ups

    2. a key element of the equation has changed; the levels of ‘knowledge about’ and ‘exposure to’ new and varied music by the crowd. we haven’t worked out exactly how this is going to play out but we know that one “need” from the crowd is gone. (they are their own dj in the sense of exposure to new music) what “works in the clubs” isn’t music, it’s people. people come to meet or at least ‘see/be seen by’ other people. can’t “one song/track after another” be done well with only a laptop?

  9. It definitely depends on the context. When I’m playing house music to a bar full of drunken dancers, I’m usually only playing two decks.

    However, if I’m playing some crazy after party at 4 AM or if I’m doing a radio broadcast I’m usually playing some weird techno and messing around with three decks, a traktor remix deck, and maschine as a sequencer and sythn (massive as a vst). I understand why this set up is just not practical for a lot of dj gigs but it’s really fun to get wild with in the right setting.

  10. This whole debate I find really useless. The reality, at least in the
    electronic music world is that there has always been a mainstream and an
    underground. In neither scene have the differences been the techniques
    or technologies of DJs. The most important factor by far, in both
    scenes, has always been the music. Obviously you’ll find more DJ purists
    in the underground scene but as long as you’re not using sync or DJing
    off your iPhone then your gear is fine as long you play good music.

    Like others have alluded to, 99% of DJs (including me) are not nearly good
    enough to make the latest Guy J track sound better by slicing and dicing
    it live. Even with non-live production, I’d say only 3% of DJ/producers can make
    a remix of said track that sounds better than the original. The only type of music live trickery works with (for more than 10 minutes) is some techno and EDM.

    Bottom line is that in both scenes people want to hear brilliant (relative to
    the scene) music, they don’t care about what the DJ is doing behind the
    decks to make the tracks he’s playing sound “unique.” What will enamor
    them to the DJ is a DJ who can create a great flow, who can build an
    irresistible vibe and who can introduce them to great new music that
    they haven’t heard before.

    (And yes, crate digging is still a thing. There’s so much good stuff floating around Soundcloud and other dark depths of the internet and best of all, it’s mostly free.)

    1. I agree almost 100%. My only difference of opinion is the only people who care about what the DJ is using (an iPhone, sync, etc.) is other DJs. If the end result kicks ass then the crowd will never care.

    2. It works well with Jazz (especially for Skat) Rock (guitar and drum solos seem truly epic), and even Latin beats. I haven’t tried it with any Chinese songs yet, but I imagine (as long as you follow the standards for music) it too would rock.

  11. This debate is wack. I never used vinyl and never will because they are so expensive and combersome but I love my jogs on my controllers and would never buy a controller without them.

    1. The controller is small and less expensive and that is your choice. I have had my 1210’s since 1997 and they have never let me down. We will see if some of the controllers are about in 15 – 20 years.

        1. i doubt ppl will use the same controller in 20 years like DJs have been using the same technics 1200/1210 for decades.

          controllers come and go, i actually never saw anyone using an NS7 in a club, or some other controller, only CDJs and turntables.

          1. It’s an apples and oranges point though. Turntables only play records. Controllers change on an annual basis based on the software. I do feel that will see controllers in some form and turntables in DJing in 20 years.

          2. Turntables were a standard then came cdjs and lately controllers. The point is: there is no standard nowadays.
            Young people are growing with smartphones capables to perform music better than a whole set in your hand. Why they must care about vinyl (or artform associated to it)?
            “Tradition” (drive by fear to new technology or “keep it real” statment.)
            Reality is not related to tool or skill, it is related to autenticity in our hearts and mind.

            That’s what music is all about (and dj should care about music and feelings)

              1. Not really… Big clubs most, middle clubs some and little clubs never. Pioneer doing promos to resell their gear with not so success (almost here in Spain) like car vendors (discount for you old pioneer gear in exchange)

                And the there are a lot of djs carrying their traktor/serato boxes and laptop.
                Ableton live and analog gear rocking festivals for electronic music…

                Djing and Turntablism webpages are embracing new tech or get buried… Dissapear? Neither so but the scene needs someone finding a “bridge” between these two paradigms or old will be smaller day by day… And changes are exponential in the internet era.

                Even Serato has sync nowadays. I expect maybe a dedicated smartmixing unit from pioneer (the central part of the djm2000) which could bring these Bridge (and keep Pioneer as a standard for some parts of the setups) but think not so many years ago Technics were at every club. Are still there?

                In Spain not (including Ibiza).

  12. What I took away from this piece (and why I published it) is that while the traditional ways of DJing are cool and timeless, we shouldn’t let that stop us from investigating new ways of playing music to a crowd. Neither Craig or DJWORX are being anti-anything, and we’re merely challenging convention and encouraging discussion about the dogmatic adherence to a method of control that was very applicable when platters supported vinyl, but in the context of the digital age, this method of control has much less relevance to DJs than ever.

    And to state my own case plain and clear – I prefer a turntable or motorised platter, because my needs are simple and I like the level of tactile control for mixing and scratching. But without this kind of exchange of ideas, we’ll miss out on potentially cool ways of playing music. It’s only in the 10 or so years that loops, cues, and samples have become a thing. And now it’s the absolute norm. Who knows where we’ll be in another decade — hopefully in a DJ scene where all manner of old and new tech happily co-exist and compliment each other.

    1. motorised platters move, they give anyone peeping into the booth a visual of playing music. the make scratching, oh let’s say, 25% easier and better. we’ve all seen the handytrax scratch videos, so we know we’re at a point of not needing direct drive. all we need now is for a few rounds of resistance to silly new gear :)

  13. Disagree… I think you guys are forgetting something. Part of the reason many of us started DJing is because it’s fun. Granted, everyone doesn’t like jogs. I started on vinyl and graduated to controllers, but music manipulation via jogs (at least for me) is fun. Everthing isn’t about efficiency, or we would all drive a Prius. No, scratching isn’t everything, but can anyone honestly pull off a good transform with a touchstrip? When the DJ isn’t having fun, just playing a bunch of un-inspired music, I bet ya dollars to doughnuts the dancefloor is practically empty.

    Sure vinyl is expensive, but there are songs that exist that are not sold in any format except vinyl. And if you play any hip-hop at all, the whole genre just lends itself to a good scratch.

    Every DJ (and I do mean every) is different, Just because another enterprising DJ is Shazaming my playlist, doesn’t mean that those same songs will inspire him the way it did me, and he/she will have a whole new sound.

    1. Here’s the thing you’re forgetting. There is a whole generation of DJs out there now that have never touched vinyl, and don’t think it or anything about it represents “fun”. When I see someone like GirlTalk sweating over a saran-wrapped computer, I don’t think to myself “That guy isn’t having any fun.”. I don’t see an empty dance floor in front of him. What I see is a dude grinning ear to ear in front of a massive crowd losing their minds over a performance done with mouse.

  14. Controllerism (hate that word) is still in relative infancy, so it’s not surprising that any non-platter methods of track manipulation are unpopular among most DJ’s.

    Personally, I couldn’t care less one way or the other; Use What Works, that’s my motto. I love my old 1210’s, but I mostly use CDJ’s …and I’m *really* eager to see what Traktor Pro 3 has to offer.

    Life is change.

  15. Here is an Idea….How about making controllers with detachable Jog Wheels?
    And by detachable I mean integrated detachable like a cartridge?
    That way people can choose to bring the Wheels or Not…Eh?
    Those of us like me who love to scratch will get even bigger platters.
    Just an idea for the Industry.
    Masta Hanksta

        1. Some people still swear by their DVS platforms. If you want to ditch weight, there are jog wheel controllers (you can find them in the digitaldjtips controller guide), and you’d really only need one, because they are deck assignable.

          I think Native Instruments decided they wanted to end the debate here. The touch strips really are a superior input/feedback device, they take up less room on the controller, and they will satisfy most people they are selling these controllers to. Anyone wanting a different way to control their decks can plug in another (supported) device, and get what they want too. No one gets left out here, and everyone gets supported.

          It’s nice to see Native Instruments learned from their F1 debacle and learned to accept that their clients make them who they are.

          Why would anyone want to fight against that?

    1. Arguably this was the purpose of the SCS1s, but they had their own (massive) issues.

      The Behringer CMD modules tried this as well, and I think they handled it a lot better, but they are really small wheels. In the end, though, are you thinking like an SCS4 that can have the left and right ends splits from the mixer?

  16. Well if you look at the live coding music community they’re dumping not just dj software like traktor but even things like ableton live to generate the “tracks” from sound and samples in realtime, nobody can even write a product for them because writing your own software in realtime is the whole focus of this kind of performance.

  17. Everyman do his ting a lil way different… that being said, I started playing the one’s and two’s in the mid 90’s. Going to my local shops like Play De Record, Bassline and scrubbing through everything else in my area for the little breakbeat hardcore and experimental techno i could find.
    In 2004 or so, a friend of mine introduced me to Ableton Live. After I witnessed where technology had the potential of going i soon invested in a small soundcard, a UC-33e, built myself a computer and started to save my pennies for a synth. Thank god for the sh-201 and the launchpad. Within 2 years I found myself playing loops and chopping my favourite tracks for vox and other sound samples, after all there weren’t many examples of Orange loops from minus for the true feel of improve techno.
    Since the release of Traktor 2 I have migrated to Native Instruments. My set up at home, the one that I find most comfortable is a Z2, a pair of 900’s and a pair of F1’s. I find that it is an even blend of the old one and two’s with a natural addition of clip and loop launch.
    Honestly, it should all come down to comfort. Play music and dance on!!!

    1. I love bringing out my mixer, plugging my Novation Twitch into one side, and a 1200 in the other. Good times mashing buttons and dropping the odd scratch in. The iPad remote app is a great way to control fx….I like the idea of mixing and matching gear together.

      Good on ya for sorting that out early :)

  18. My choice is still the controller. But how about taking that one step further and having a controller with send and return like a traditional mixer so we as DJ’s can manipulate the sound even further or remix it with external devices like an effects machine, I know the software has effects, but something like the RMX 1000 where you have control over the hi, mid, and low’s of an effect not just overall effect.

  19. I’d never tell anyone to “give up” the setup or technique they love. What I instead push is respect for everyone’s choices. Learn to judge by what you hear over what you see. A kid with just a laptop on sync making a stellar set in my book is just as amazing as a guy on two decks doing a wild performance.

    The in-fighting has to stop, and the lovers of the “old way” need to stop preaching that anything “computer” is suddenly “wrong”. If some kid on midi is blowing up, regardless if he/she can play well or not, then that’s life. This is the music biz after all.

  20. While this is an old post, i just came across it and feel like the sentiment is still relevant.

    I used to play with 3 1200s in my early 20s and then just stopped. Years went by, and I got to see all the cool tools developed for the digital generation. Touch strip controllers came out and they looked pretty cool, but never took off. Then I finally played again. CDJs, most of the tracks run through beat grid adjustment. I noticed a few things: the ergonomics of vertically oriented faders is easier for minor tempo adjustment. The circular jog wheel control for pushing and pulling is also easier for syncing, because of the circumference length.

    Not all music can be quantized, so manual beatmatching will remain a skill, even if it adds nothing to the music. Any control design to achieve this will have to be better than a fader and wheel if it wants to replace it. Horizontal touch strips are definitely not there yet.