NAMM 2016: Denon DJ’s VL12 turntable

NAMM 2016 Denon DJ VL12 turntable (11)

After a period of playing hunt the turntable at trade shows, we’re back to a time where we’re more or less tripping over the damned things. It seems that the industry has developed vinyl fever and they can’t help but put out a new turntable to ride the resurgence wave. And with Denon DJ raising its head again, a new turntable is just the ticket. And they took the perspex force field off just for us to fondle it too.

The new VL12 is a completely fresh design. It’s not a Hanpin superOEM, but is an all new from the ground up design. And as a completely new product, Denon DJ has taken a fresh look at features and tried to make important differentiating changes to set this further apart from the superOEM crowd.

inMusic wants me to stress that this is strictly prototype, and while being close there will most probably be some changes. Aesthetically, this is like the new MCX-8000 — some plastic but mainly brushed steel, and it is planned to have as much metal as possible. At this point however it’s not heavy, but will be.

There some interesting features on here. The feet for example are set into the chassis a little more than other turntables. This apparently will improve feedback as they support the motor and inner working better. Speaking of inner workings, this motor will have 4.9kg torque too. There go your fingerprints.

NAMM 2016 Denon DJ VL12 turntable (8)

The location of the cables is an interesting one too. The VL12 is reminiscent of older Vestax turntables like the A2s in that this appears to be more of a turntablist battle position layout so that the cables come out of the back instead of the side. I’m told however that they’ll come with right angled cables so that button up to a mixer will be just fine. Also despite the current markings it’ll be phono out.


NAMM 2016 Denon DJ VL12 turntable (15)

The big draw, and tapping right into the modding scene is the inclusion of LED lighting. The ring under the platter and the platter light can be controlled to match whatever colour you like, and the intensity defined too. As a feature, it’s next to useless as it won’t bring anything to the skills table. But is sure as hell is cool. Jared commented that he wanted to hate this turntable for all its cheesiness, but it’s hard not to really like it when you see it in the flesh. For a future feature idea, lighting features like the Numark Lightwave speakers would be cool — BPM pulsing, meters, or just randomised colours would be interesting. Or you can just turn it off and have a regular non-flashing turntable.

SUMMING UP

Does the DJ world need another turntable? No. But does it need this one? Absolutely. In a sea of superOEMs from the major players (please, just stop and do something original and additive for the market ), the Denon DJ VL12 stands apart on its own, and is more attractive for it. Just like the Numark TTX before it, this appeals to me because it tries to be something else. We’re actually looking forward to this one.

The VL12 is likely to appear in Summer (it was included at NAMM as a last minute thing) and will cost $699.

GALLERY

  • Me likey.

  • Due to public demand, there are now discussions about trying to get a straight arm version too, but without borrowing Numark tech. Denon DJ wants to stand on its own two feet (or in this case four) and adopt the premium position in the inMusic roster.

    • DJ dVo

      I was just thinking about that. I would love to try out a set of straight-arms to complement my Technics.

    • Bill Ierardi

      oh i really hope so!

    • Steve Brown

      i have a t92 that I bent the arm straight and shortened it.
      While bending, it developed a slight dip, or downward curve, in the middle. It did affect the needle angle, so its not as loud as it was, but it’s skipless, for sure.

  • Anteater

    Given the choice between VL12, RP7000, PLX1000 the Denon is standing out for me. Been trying to stalk it since the fist pics dropped midweek.

    • DJ dVo

      I think Vestax has something in the pipeline as well. If they do come through with a set of TTs, they will sure make heads turn.

      • Anteater

        Vestax would be great to see, but I’m expecting the return to be be excellently engineered premium products and priced accordingly.

        Whilst Denon DJ are pitching above Numark / other InMusic brands its still directly comparable to Pioneer DJ. I could afford the VL’s, bet I can’t afford Vestax!

      • I really don’t think that they are. Mr Shiino made it clear in his statement that STP Vestax is a boutique limited run outfit.

    • Anteater

      Dear Denon DJ, I like these a lot but please don’t put Denon DJ in big white letters on all sides of the production model.

      Less is more 😉

  • DJArtical

    I like it because it not just a clone of the original 1200mk2 it looks like an attempt at a completely new design…

  • White Wulfe

    My those look rather interesting, but I think I’m happy enough with my Stanton STR8-150’s. Out of all the various ones that are out there for new releases, I definitely like that it isn’t just a repack of a Hanpin, and love the black tonearm assembly….

  • kebzer

    I like this one, just because they are trying something different.

  • Sergio Pantaleo

    They are esthetically really nice, they look&feel really pro but the led ring is more of a toy. Definitely a better option than pioneer.

  • alkivar

    dumb question… but it’ll bug OCD folks like me… does the strobe LED change color to match the ring around the platter?

    • Yes it does. It was bit off-colour on this pre-production model, but it’ll be fixed for final production runs.

  • nzimm

    At first sight, the tonearm base and gimbal looked way too much like those of the cheaper Hanpin model (ie AT LP 120). Closer inspection shows it does not seem to be a direct drop-in – good for them.

  • Dino

    Hi Mark, could you provide some feedback please?

    On the turntable itself, there are indicators for +/- 8-16-50%.

    The feature list claims: +/- 6%. Any word on that? I have never seen a pitch range of +/- 6%

  • Niros

    After talking to one of the more distinguished gentleman in the booth. He said something coming in the summer about a 12″…. 🙂

    • Bill Ierardi

      a 12 inch what? i hope this isnt a penis joke gone over my head

  • ace

    I can see the underside is plastic, so I cant help but wonder if they’ve taken a controller approach to this. Is the brushed metal plate fastened onto plastic? I really hope not.

  • schorsch

    its all about feedback. design this like a tank, rubber base bakelite inlay.

  • Borislav Petrov

    Nah… $699?! We don’t buy TTs below $4K

    • Borislav Petrov

      Now serious: I like the look very very much, if the feel is as good as the look, I may think of changing my 15 years old Technics

  • Tim Maughan

    I hope they do something about the branding, because it’s kinda ugly. Especially at this price. WTF is going on with the graphics on the start/stop button? Ugh.

    General question: looking for some new decks, grew up on 1210s, but had to sell them about 15 years ago to my regret. Not interested in scratching, just looking for something to mix my old house/techno 12″s on/use with DVS. Can i get away with some Hanpins? Are they solid enough to beat mix on? Will that keep me happy, or should I go the second hand technics route? Not really wanting to spend too much cash, and here in NYC I *might* still get a couple of 1200s for the price of one of these…

    • Nicoll

      Hanpins are actually better to beatmatch on than technics. The platter does not slingshot forward on them like they do on 1210s

      • Tim Maughan

        Interesting…i’d not heard that before.

      • nzimm

        You have ways of working around that, though.
        -Use other nudging techniques that involve a lighter touch (including not pressing against the platter too much).
        -Ride the pitch instead of pushing the platter. Works the same on anything with a pitch fader and frees up your other hand for other things.
        -If really, you can not just not push the platter and they are the only technics you’ll ever use, then do this mod http://www.new-line.nl/?i=62

      • ace

        Are you sure about that?
        I’ve experienced that on Gemini’s but NEVER on a SL.

      • Luke Peter Annett

        I disagree.

    • Bill Ierardi

      i imagine the button is like that so when u flip it battle style it doesnt look sideways so much

      • ace

        Are you sure about that?
        I’ve experienced that on Gemini’s but NEVER on a SL.

        • ace

          Sorry that was for Nicole.

    • MQParty

      I’m seriously considering the Audio Technica LP1240s. High ratings over the past few years, more features, and a couple hundred less than the competition. Wondering if anyone else uses them?

      • Tim Maughan

        Cheers, I’ll take a look.

    • Steve Brown

      the Stanton str8-100 is an excellent turntable. I see them go for $400 a pair, and like a 1200 they last, if not forever, a really long time.

    • nzimm

      If you intend on sticking to DVS then any decent Hanpin should be appropriate. For real vinyl, aim your sound system away from them if they are not the heavier duty models (ST150, PLX…).
      In any case, be wary of the loose tonearm bearings. This is a common problem and I don’t think I’ve come across a hanpin-based deck that didn’t have this problem. A loose tonearm sucks when cueing whether you’re on DVS or not, and you can hear it rattling when playing real vinyl in some cases.
      On my dj partner’s st-100/1200 setup, the difference between the two was very much in the tonearm, too light of a tactile feedback on the pitch fader (kinda CDJ-ish) and the motor letting go much more when (god forbid) tweaking the axle / pressing against the platter.
      On the other side you might get some 1200s that require too much surgery to make it worth your while, whereas any new hanpin will be fine (modulo the bearings thing).

      • Tim Maughan

        Yeah, that’s my concern about picking up some old 1200s – that I’m actually going to end up spending more money on keeping them running. Hmm.

      • Steve Brown

        It’s just two little set screws, I take mine out and shift it to the left a hair.

  • CutSelekta

    the tonearm reminds me of the one on the Gemini PDT6000, it felt a lil cheap compared to Technics but lets see how it works in practice, ill buy 1 as a spare, try it out for a month and see if it holds up

  • Bill Ierardi

    i dont give a shit what it looks like anyone got the specs?

    • Mark

      It’s a prototype, and not finished yet. But it looks to have adjustable torque – with a low and high setting.

      • Bill Ierardi

        does it go up to 11?

    • 4.9 kgf.

      • Bill Ierardi

        impressive, any other specs u know

  • MQParty

    I was sold the moment I saw these Denons. However, other than the led ring, it doesn’t have the features that the turntables I originally planned on buying, Audio Technica LP1240’s. More features on the AT1240s, proven over the past few years and $399 each! I think I will stick with my original plan of getting the AT1240s.

    • DJ KID A

      Audio Technicas ATLP 1240s are absolutely amazing for any kind of use. I have been using them for over 3 hours every day for 2 years and I am a scratch DJ. The torque is great. You can’t go wrong with those.

  • Cisco EL Nino

    i understand that this is still a prototype, but i wonder why no start & stop adjustments? Mark were you able to get a photo of the underside of the platter?

    • They wouldn’t allow it because it’s subject to change.

  • Oddie O’Phyle

    If these are what I think they are, I’ll be happy that I didn’t grab a pair of RP8000’s. Any word on wow/flutter?

    • Mark

      I spoke with an inMusic rep and was told that the motor and mechanics should mean very low wow/flutter.

  • Mark

    Super excited by this turntable, it looked awesome.

  • Victor Tsung

    I’m down for it!

  • Dax

    another fisher price looking turntable for kids

    • Steve Brown

      Kinda looks like a vestax to me. I always liked that v shape.

    • Tony Mitchell

      What’s is fisher price about it. Could you be specific?

      • Dax

        just looks cheap and poor layout,but i’m sure we all want different things from a turntable,personally i dont care for a DVS controller in a turntable format i want a high end audiophile turntable that can be used to DJ with,so i guess i’m sticking with what i got for now

    • Mark

      Looked anything but in the flesh. Looks mean!

  • Ivory Samoan

    Down to give them a fling when they come out: see if they give my Mk5Gs a run for their money – loving the TTL resurgence!!

  • The_KLH

    Any chance that there’s an update to the V7 in the works somewhere? It’d be great to see a V12 or even a V10…

  • TheQuakerOatsGuy

    With the talk about the TTX is got me to thinking how badly I used to want one. It’s hard to tell if it would be a smart purchase or not, but I really did like how it was so different from all the other ones. The screen is probably something I didn’t need, nor was the 50% pitch, but it was actually trying to step it up a notch vs the competition. Still might bite on one to play around with the future, I hope Denon’s turntable is as exciting as the TTX was.

    • Steve Brown

      They’re going for $399 these days. Not bad

      • TheQuakerOatsGuy

        Yeah. When I need one I’ll probably try for a used one as long as it’s not the first batch. With all the cool little features it had I’m surprised it wasn’t more popular.

        • Steve Brown

          That’s the price for brand new.
          If you get one, just don’t leave it plugged in all the time, the power supplies have been know to be funky if you do.

  • Luke Peter Annett

    Wow/flutter of 0.01% and I’m sold. Great to see so much work put into grounding and isolation. All oems are pathetic on that front.

  • Tony Mitchell

    Not another turntable!!! Wasn’t there a discussion here a month ago about how vinyl is dead? I’m loving this.

  • Carlos Guerra

    Why is it that we can not break the paradigm of the dj turntable?

    Don’t get me wrong, this denon VL12 model is way cool but it’s still just a plain old turntable, I do love the fact that turntables are back, heck I own 6! (two DP-DJ151 now predecessor of the VL12) but when are we going to see true turntable innovation?

    The TTX and RP-8000 were a good start but why go backwards now? Don’t we have enough repetitive turntable designs and products out there?

    • Oh man. Don’t even go there!

      • Actually yes, go there. GO THERE! Vekked and I had a good exchange recently. There is so much that could be done, but everyone is just bandwagoning at this point. I get that the VL12 is the only new deck that’s not a Hanpin, and yes – that really speaks for it. But it’s still just a turntable, no matter how good the build may be.

        I want to see something that allows me to take the art to the next level – like the PDX3000 (you could say Controller One, but that wasn’t widely available and they’re basically the same when you know your MIDI 101). Combine that with a V7 to get rid of the stupid useless needle, add a 10″ platter, internal memory so we can load scratch records and any TCV we want… not hard, the tech has been there for years, someone DO IT ALREADY.

        • Jam Burglar

          Agree the turntable companies need to step up their innovation game.

          Here’s the thing with the PDX3000 vs Controller 1 though. From a tablist perspective, reaching all the way over to some keyboard to change notes/pitch is really limiting. The buttons by the platter on the C1 are key because you can keep your hand on the platter while you change pitch. Changing pitch via keyboard is kind of like having your upfaders on a separate mixer that sits 2 feet away.

          I know we’re likely to see more midi-controlled turntables but that’s kind of the easy way out in my opinion. Without a way to ergonomically change the pitch it’s not all that useful of a feature (unless all you want to do is play with endless tones).

          • Steve Brown

            What do you think about putting midi on the center label, and hit it with your thumb?

            • Same as with the Controller One, really (see my answer to Jam Burglar). You’ll have to be as accurate with the pinky of your other hand. On a needle-less (what a word) deck, we could perhaps just have both – buttons along the platter, and in the center. But the “label” part would have to be isolated from the record like on the SL-DZ1200 in order for it to stay static while you move the vinyl jog. I wonder how much that would affect the overall feel – never liked the SL-DZ1200 much…

              • Steve Brown

                “” the “label” part would have to be isolated from the record like on the SL-DZ1200 in order for it to stay static””
                Yea, I’m not so sure about that. I was thinking more for scratching, where I’m already holding the record and my hand is “synced” to the center label

                • But that would make it hard to move along the buttons while you scratch (like you do when they’re placed on the platter base). I guess everyone has their own approach, that’s why making a universally accepted design is near impossible.

                  • Steve Brown

                    Maybe center label is just one giant button and a row of others buttons on the side determine what it does?

                    • I’m thinking more along the lines of a USB port and a cross-platform configurator app.

                    • Steve Brown

                      Oh! That’s a great idea.
                      Maybe the rekordbox tt will have some features like that?
                      This is what Technics should have came back and done. I can really see folks getting into custom torque settings.

              • Jam Burglar

                I was thinking about this and I don’t think buttons in the center will work. Mimic your hand like you’re cutting up by the label and then try to move your thumb like it would need to move to hit the buttons. No matter which way you position your hand there’s no good way to hit the buttons UP toward the center of the record. Now try it with your hand placed toward the edge of the record, letting your thumb hang DOWNWARD towards where the buttons on a C1 are. You’ll see that in that position your thumb has much more freedom to reach.

                • That’s why I said that having both options, with full mapping flexibility, would be ideal. Don’t get rid of the buttons around the platter – just add more of them and make sure the layout is symmetrical.

                • Steve Brown

                  Yea, you never know til you make a prototype. Seems like that space could be reclaimed for some purpose.

                  • Jam Burglar

                    If you’re talking strictly from a controller sense, yeah. Why not. You’re ditching the ability to put vinyl on the platter with that though.

                    Personally, I’ve got no real interest in giving up the ability to put a record on the platter and see what works. I like to do my own digging and that’s 90% dependent on vinyl, mostly because I don’t want to have to deal with transferring something into digital audio format just to try it out. That’s 5-10 minutes of wasted time for me, per sample. I can go through 20 records in that amount of time. Some of the best stuff comes from just trying out random sounds to see what works.

                    I see why the guys who only work in the digital realm are ready to ditch the analog turntable vestiges though, that makes perfect sense. Personally, once you’re off wax, it makes more sense to have the buttons trigger scaled samples because platter speed is an issue for control. If I wasn’t using wax, I’d prefer a constant slower pitch instead of the variations. A lot of us aren’t in that all-digital camp though so from the manufacturer’s standpoint it probably makes the most sense to try to cater to both crowds.

                    More buttons around the platter makes a lot of sense though. The C1 has an octave, AND you can move the range of that by using the dial. But it’s nice to have even more range at your quick disposal. You can also program the C1’s buttons (on the fly) using its memory so you can set up custom note/scale arrangements but that takes some pre-planning.

                    • I’m not trying to conceptualize a unit that does everything, and I’m DEFINITELY not trying to ditch vinyl as a medium. I’m trying to improve on a very, VERY dated interface, adapting the useful and discarding the useless.

                • Steve Brown

                  So I’ve been tinkering around with this.
                  It is easy to scratch-release then hit a specific, button sized area on the center label(I put stickers on to try it)
                  Also, I think that three “rings” could be placed in there, which might make it even easier.

                  • Jam Burglar

                    Based on the way the C1 works, you can’t really hit the pitch on the release because you typically want the pitch adjusted BEFORE you release. When flipping short samples I’m usually hitting the button on the pull-back so it’s ready for the note change when I cut the sound back in. The advantage to the buttons below is that your thumb can move laterally with relative ease when your hand is positioned correctly. This helps you to hit a pretty wide swath of area independent of the rest of your hand. Not saying it’s impossible to put buttons up by the label but I don’t think it will integrate as naturally as the buttons below.

          • Which begs the question, is it even something you’d want to do with your hand? And how do you design such a control layout for it to be used equally comfortably from both sides? The C1 is an example. The buttons on the edge can only really be hit comfortably and precisely with the thumb, the pinky (if used with left hand) will be pretty tough to use.

            • Jam Burglar

              I use the C1 with my left hand very comfortably by rotating the table to a 45 degree angle and using the thumb to hit the buttons. It works great actually but you need practice to flex it right.

              That’s the thing about the C1, I think if people had access to them then more people would “get it”. It’s a much more musical approach to DJing just by the way it’s set up. Adding a keyboard to a midi-enabled turntable is really not the same thing.

              As far as layout goes, I’d be more into dedicated buttons near the platter for “sharp”, “flat” and to change the octave than messing with the placement of the note buttons.

        • NoTangoDeneiro

          blah blah “the next level”, you have no idea what youre talking about, safe the geek stuff for game forums

          get yourself a SC3900, and go next level smh

        • DJ dVo

          It would not be called a TT if the needle is removed. Sorry but by the basic bare-bone definition of a TT is to play record, off an analogue medium. Unless new technology has the ability to “laser” read the grooves – troughs and valleys – of a record, there is no other way. Even then, we have seen “laser disc” that failed to the bone.It’s like asking, let’s drive around but without an engine.

          What you’are wishing for is a V7MKII, which still is a controller.

          • We can have ultra-precise tracking with no fear of skipping, wear, dust collection or bass feedback. Taking into consideration that most people use DVS for DJing and skipless battle tools for scratching, there really is no reason to rely on a needle anymore. I’m not talking about DJing as a whole – some things just have to be played from vinyl. I’m talking about performance.

            If you’re happy calling it a controller, call it a controller. I don’t care as long as it lets me do things I couldn’t do before.

            • Steve Brown

              Whatcha think about a whammy bar on a turntable? Wonder what it would take to do this?

        • Mark

          Ummm… “useless needle” – what sort of turntable are you after exactly? One that doesn’t actually play records? I am confused.

          • I explained this below, but I’ll paste it for you.

            We can have ultra-precise tracking with no fear of skipping, wear, dust collection or bass feedback. Taking into consideration that most people use DVS in relative mode for DJing and skipless battle tools for scratching, there really is no reason to rely on a needle anymore. I’m not talking about DJing as a whole – some things just have to be played from vinyl. I’m talking about the turntable as a performance instrument.

            • Mark

              I get what you’re saying, mate. But that is purely about DVS, not records. You’re talking about a controller, primarily (motorised controller, to be specific) – not a turntable.

    • Tony Mitchell

      Repetitive designs? Do Saxophone players say that about their Saxophones? A TT is pretty much a musical instrument. Get over it.

      • Carlos Guerra

        Innovation needs to be done if not well keep seeing the circle of “end of turntables/vinyl” Why? because of lack of sales, if it was so important as an instrument we still have most of the brands and steady sales but we don’t.

        What other thing have Pioneer achieve with their turntable other than a brand hype, Does it have different features than my MK5?
        Why would I replace a perfectly good turntable with another perfectly and equally good turntable?

        But opposite to that example is the NXS2, it has subtle changes from its own predecessor but so important to a DJ for his performance and creativity, it automatically makes it a wanted item.

        Looks like we want turntables to be on the market just so we know they are there, to satisfy our DJ ego or something but a commitment to purchase them is a different thing.

        Changes and innovation can be subtle but must be important, for example it’s doesn’t mean that we need to get rid of the tonearm but instead build on top of it, I’m sure we can all list a lot of things to add to a turntable and I bet most of them will be simple yet cool and innovative for our performance and creativity.

        • NoTangoDeneiro

          a turntable doesn’t need innovation, it needs to be robust, reliable and durable like a Technics, a piano doesn’t need innovation either, it need to be good quality.

          same applies for mixers, all a mixer needs is good sound, good faders, good eq, the rest in only nessesary for the spoiled human being who is never satisfied and is clueless that you can be creative with an instrument rather than letting the instrument do the most work for them .

          • Steve Brown

            The electric piano , the electric guitar?????
            Both of those turned out to be pretty handy

            • NoTangoDeneiro

              the turntable is electric too, you had to wind them up in the early days, so basically you got what you need but people like you seem to think that you need more to be creative, a pianist needs a piano, not a synth.

              • “Yes, I am a criminal. My crime is that of curiosity. My crime is that of outsmarting you, something that you will never forgive me for.”

                -The Mentor, Jan 8th, 1986

              • Carlos Guerra

                Turntables will always be there just like I expect for an acoustic guitar to always be there for ever!, but we need the “electric guitar of turntables”, again subtle changes at first some technical others to help a DJ creativity to expand and there is nothing wrong with wanting that.

                But little changes add up and that will make a big difference and will make it a wanted item again. For so long the market was flooded with regular turntables which by the way they were and will keep being displaced by more modern equipment. What is the motivation for the manufacturer to keep building something that has no or minimal market and What is the motivation for users to keep buying something that hasn’t change and that is widely available.

                If you think about it there is a big gap between a turntable and a controller with similar characteristics to a turntable like the SC3900, V7, etc. they’re cool but for some reason they failed to replace the turntable that’s why we keep buying the next thing.

              • Steve Brown

                Yea it’s not like there’s an absolutely enormous musical culture/style/genre founded on the synth.

          • Football is a sport that depends on the skill of the players to get the ball from one end to the other, and is bound by rules and regulations. It’s not about the ball as such, but about the player’s skill. DJing however is a creative venture, and shouldn’t be limited by the arbitrary notion that a turntable is just for playing records. People bang on about then being a creative musical instruments, yet complain when people ask for innovation.

            The logic that something only needs to do just enough is flawed and kills innovation dead. We’re talking about turntables for DJs, not just a record player. Synths sprang from the notion that pianos could do more. On one level, both are keyboards that play notes, but one has evolved into something else. The turntable can do that too.

            • Mark Stewart

              Not forgetting Adidas introducing the Predator Football boot which changed the game for many players and teams, “bend it like Beckham” … are they cheating or moving the game along?

        • Steve Brown

          People want turntables for the same reason they want cars, they got a motor in ’em

      • Steve Brown

        Ahh yes, but to use the turntable as an instrument requires a lot of work beforehand.

        I think the current ideas about tt innovation are to allow even more “expressive” actions to be taken “from” the tt, instead of being pre-done in the editing.

        Now, if you say, “don’t edit, don’t use digital, use real vinyl” -someone still had to edit those records at some point.

        Just for scratching, finding new samples is a lot of work. Find them, record them, try them out to see if they work both as scratch sounds and if they work as just sounding cool. A way to tweak those samples, right on the tt, and not have to go back and re-edit would be helpful in using it as an instrument.

        • NoTangoDeneiro

          Just for scratching all you need is a couple of random records, you can cut with anything , even classical to country records, the editing doesnt have to be done, all you need is a good ear for that.

          For making and producing tracks it’s a different story, you want everything to sound perfect but the editing is the most boring part of it all.

          you don’t believe in spontanity and improvisation, everything needs to be edited before even doing a copycat scratch, im the opposite, i done live gigs just grabbed a record and improvised, that’s when the fun really starts and the crowd could see that. I also done prepared sets but that was less fun as everything was rehearsed.

          To get to the point, a turntable needs to be a turntable and not some midi and cue point device, leave that shit on mixer, the C1 was cool but a cheap plastic device with humming sound and ruining records with that str8 arm, it’s expensive sure but far from the quality of a 12

          • Steve Brown

            Well I look forward to your entry in the dmc then.

            • NoTangoDeneiro

              why would you care about DMC? they use actual turntables, not the spaceships that youre dreaming about

              • Steve Brown

                If that’s what you think; ‘that there’s no where to go in the development of the turntable, and you’re satisfied with the gear you have, and you’re able to entertain people with said gear,’ then why do you care what I or anyone else wants?

                I think you’ve gotten freestyling and experimenting mixed up with performance. Yes, you can get up there and fart around with some records and find some sounds that will scratch a bit, or drum with a rock record or whatever.

                But me, and others who think you have to keep moving forward to be creative and not be a copycat or “parody of a parody” want more.

                If You Don’t want more, then great, go rock out with the gear you have. The online dmc is a great place to prove your point about how creative the turntable, as is, can be.

                • NoTangoDeneiro

                  you comment on a turntable is why i reacted, there was the RP-8000 for those who want more, this is for those who don’t need more but time will tell if it’s a solid deck, the only thing im not digging is the tonearm wich looks a little low budget

                  • Steve Brown

                    For the most part, because I’m interested in ttablism, I want buttons on the tt, for affecting pitch, not cues.
                    I’d like to see a computer controlled motor that can learn to associate movements with pitch changes, thereby making the buttons only for settings changes.
                    Once the system is in place, gradually build up to, the system sensing movements and applying associated fx to the output.
                    And yes that should be on a solidly built tt, like the Stanton 100.

          • For accuracy, the Controller One was solid wood. And as far as ruining records go, you’re talking about scratch vinyl or time code. By definition, it’s a consumable and is designed to be ruined.

            • NoTangoDeneiro

              it ruins regular records, i know, i tried, it would have been nicer if it was good quality for both playback and scratch

      • Steve Brown

        But wasn’t Adolfo sax a flute player who invented the saxophone because he wasn’t satisfied with what could be done with the flute???

        • Tony Mitchell

          I didn’t know that. Thanks, But you notice that the flute remained intact and is still around today? 🙂 Even though he wasn’t satisfied with the flute it didn’t go away like folks here are suggesting we do with the turntable.

          • I’m certain that nobody here has ever said do away with the turntable. But that doesn’t mean that more can’t be done with it outside of the 1200 standard. Both can co-exist, just like the sax and the flute – one does not replace the other.

          • Steve Brown

            yes, as Mark has said, nobody is saying do away with the turntable.

            personally i think nothing is better for djing.

            but the cost and time and storage around trying to have vinyl, and personalized music, is well, i just dont want to fool with it, been there done that. i keep a small collection of drum and bass that would be impossible to replace, and thats it.

    • Mark

      Personally, I agree. But tell that to all the Technics fanboys.

  • dj snow

    the denon DP-A100 was a 2000$ super oem. i am skeptical

    • Mark

      Different parent company.

  • Simon Kennedy

    the tonearm is super-oem, same one on audio technica/omnitronic (older turntables)

    • NoTangoDeneiro

      yeah the tonearm does look low budget cheap, the rest of the turntable looks nice imo

  • dinn

    Guys, I would like to get Denon MC 6000 mk2 and 2 x Numark TT250 USB. Do you think is it good set up for beginner?

    • NoTangoDeneiro

      the Audio Technica LP1240 USB turntable would be a better choice but slightly more expensive than the TT250USB (wich is not a good turntable imo)

      • dinn

        Thank you. Any alternatives for mixer/controller?

        • NoTangoDeneiro

          i don’t use a controller, the Xone:23(C) mixer is affortable and good sound and you can put an innofader in it for future upgrade

        • Steve Brown

          voxia m70, djtech mixer one, umix pro, djtech x10, or the djtech with midi buttons. just kinda research what those are, and maybe that will help you define what youre looking for.
          (if you dont know then get an ns7, best of all worlds)

    • Personally yes. It gives you the option of using a controller and/or turntables. And should you like using turntables more, then you can look into using better turntables and a dedicated mixer.

    • Steve Brown

      for a beginner, hmmm
      well, how long have you wanted to do this?
      how dedicated to doing it do you feel?
      i would suggest an NS7 II, because it is so easy to mix on and you can use the spindle, which will be good practice for mixing on turntables, later once youve got the hang of it.

  • Djcbz Emmanuel Wedgeworth

    oh yeah I must play with this first!

  • o man i wonder how this would look in red and white 🙂

  • Anteater

    Nov 2016…….. Is the VL12 ever going to be released?

  • I always wondered why the early Vestax DDs had inset feet like that.